Oil Cooler?

[Quimrider]

I had been pondering if it would be possible/practical to add an oil cooler to the GZ250 to keep her running cooler. when I had the clutch cover off the side of my engine I noticed a plug and thought that it would be a good place to tap a hole for an oil cooler. But not having adequate information on where to route the return for the oil cooler not to mention considering whether or not I would be starving some part of the engine of oil by adding the cooler. I saw this

http://www.postimage.org/Pq2J6Bl0.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq2J6Bl0)

and they had tapped the supply for the oil cooler right where I would have. I'll look at the service manual when I have time. I thought I'd throw this idea out to see if anyone else had any thoughts.

EDIT: sorry for the annoyingly huge pic. hope this one is better.

[alanmcorcoran]

Oh boy, you better not let Patrick see this! (Or are you just messing wih him?)

[music man]

Oh boy, you better not let Patrick see this! (Or are you just messing with him?)


Why should he worry about patrick seeing this, yes he is using the now infamous "350cc" bike as an example but not for the same purpose, and who the hell messed up this thread and made it ten miles wide.

[alanmcorcoran]

It's the photo.

[Water Warrior 2]

Just had a real good look at this larger pic. Did anyone notice the front portion of the rear fender stops way to soon ?

[alanmcorcoran]

How much is one of these? I think I'm going to buy one just so I can be the first to turn my GZ into a 350.

[music man]

How much is one of these? I think I'm going to buy one just so I can be the first to turn my GZ into a 350.


You still won't be the first to turn your GZ into a 350, you will just have another bike in your garage, a cheaply made chinese bike. And on top of that it is basically the same price as a GZ.

[Sarris]

:puke: :jo: :puke: :jo: :puke: :jo: :puke: :jo: :puke: :jo: :puke: :jo:

[music man]

:puke: :jo: :puke: :jo: :puke: :jo: :puke: :jo: :puke: :jo: :puke: :jo:



EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dan_]

And on top of that it is basically the same price as a GZ.

Dude did you forget Al's got more money then god?
Thats how you put it right Al?

[alanmcorcoran]

Not sure anymore. Think God has checked his 401K lately? Hope he didn't have it all with Stanford and Madoff. He'll be needing a bailout from future US generations. Nothing sadder than a laid off angel.

[Easy Rider]

I thought I'd throw this idea out to see if anyone else had any thoughts.

My first thought is: Your browser is posting messages that are WAY too wide; hard to read.
My second thought is: Not necessary or useful to post that picture YET AGAIN in such a short time.

Back to the subject at hand.......bad, BAD idea. Without access to the design specs. of the oil system, you are
indeed likely to starve something (or everything) of oil and have a meltdown. :skull:

[adrianinflorida]

Back to the original post, to put an oil cooler on, you'd need either external oil lines to tap into or at least, ports/fittings on the motor that would facilitate routing the oil flow out to the cooler and back in to the engine. The GZ's 250 doesn't have either, afaik.

[adrianinflorida]

And my post on the 250 thread wasn't that I thought I could put the 350 into a GZ250, but that the frame was pretty damn similar, a typical Chinese reverse engineered knock-off.

[music man]

And my post on the 250 thread wasn't that I thought I could put the 350 into a GZ250, but that the frame was pretty damn similar, a typical Chinese reverse engineered knock-off.


Yea but this site has a long history and MANY LOCKED THREADS because of the "turn my GZ into a 350" conversation, and the problem is like I said before NO ONE has even bought a single part to try it, much less ACTUALLY try it or DO IT, that is why the tone turned sour in a hurry when you brought it up.

And that IS a GZ250 frame and a modified GZ250 engine with different name tags on it.

[Easy Rider]

or at least, ports/fittings on the motor that would facilitate routing the oil flow out to the cooler and back in to the engine. The GZ's 250 doesn't have either, afaik.

Yes but the point IS: The GZ has a port that is used, I believe, to test the oil pressure. Some have proposed putting a fitting there to connect an oil cooler. Two problems with that: Where do you bring in the return line AND how do you ensure that creating such a bypass loop won't cause the rest of the engine to become oil starved. It's that second part that is the "killer".....literally! :skull:

[Quimrider]

Back to the original post, to put an oil cooler on, you'd need either external oil lines to tap into or at least, ports/fittings on the motor that would facilitate routing the oil flow out to the cooler and back in to the engine. The GZ's 250 doesn't have either, afaik.

That's exactly why I started this thread. Somebody out there might know something about the GZ engine that we don't making this a real possibility. I originally had the idea because I've modified air cooled VW engines and the similarities between the DR350 engine and the GZ250. The DR350 uses the frame as an oil cooler. I had given up on the idea long ago as too much of a pain in the ass until I saw the picture of the Chinese knock off that sparked my curiosity once again. That and I just had to spend $330 to fix my cylinder head warping due to overheating.

[music man]

I think that the Oil Cooler is definitely a viable option for the GZ, you need to find some better specs on that bike or like you said a DR350 or better yet a service manual for one of those bikes would be perfect, it would give you an entire teardown view of the engine. This is one project that I would say to go for, but....... like Easy said, you are taking a HUGE risk that you are going to be starving the engine of oil and there will be no way to know that you are until it is WAY too late, but with enough research into those other engines you should be able to pull it off.

[mr. softie]

Saw this on the web, thought it was interesting. The poster (Patrick_777)??rode for a while, parked the bike for 2 minutes and took these temps with an infrared thermometer.
http://www.postimage.org/Pq2JYLAr.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq2JYLAr)

Looks like the hottest spot on the motor is the rear top cylinder head (besides the exhaust pipes). I agree an oil cooler would be a good addition.

[Quimrider]

looking at some pictures from one of Babbob's threads (http://www.gz250bike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1568&hilit=clutch+cover) and thumbing thru the service manual. It looks pretty simple and reversible if you decide you don't want it there later. Page 4-11 of the service manual shows a flow chart of the oil system. We would want to located the cooler after the oil pump and before it starts branching out to the crank, clutch and cam shaft. So basically inline just before or after the oil filter. After the oil filter would be ideal but doesn't look practical.

The oil pump is behind that gear just above the curved channel (below and to the right of the clutch). It appears that the output of the oil pump fills this channel.
http://www.robertkeeney.com/gallery/d/9097-2/20080729-115634-GZ250-Clutch.jpg

This channel is where the oil pressure test plug is. This plug could be removed and used for the oil out to the cooler. The channel in the clutch cover going to the oil filter would then have to be plugged. A hole could be drilled in the oil filter cover for the cooler return line.

http://www.robertkeeney.com/gallery/d/9104-2/20080729-115700-GZ250-Clutch.jpg

I think this would work IF my understanding of the oil system is correct. I am slightly confused that in the flow chart it shows a pressure relief bypass of the oil filter. I could not find anything on this anywhere? Is this bypass built into the filter?

Does anyone know what the threads are on the oil pressure test port plug? Also anyone have info / resources for hoses and fittings etc?

[mr. softie]

I know that there are quite a few used motorcycle oil coolers, some with lines, on eBay. There is also a oil cooler kit for $50 w/shipping on eBay that includes hoses and some fittings.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330294096572&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&viewitem=
http://www.postimage.org/Pq2KJDe9.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq2KJDe9)
I have seen oil cooler lines returned to the top of the head as well, at the end of the camshaft. Don't know if this would work or not. Of course this is not the GZ motor in these pics.

http://www.postimage.org/aV2vJoM9.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV2vJoM9)

http://www.postimage.org/gx1gtaw0.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx1gtaw0)

http://www.postimage.org/Pq2KLTpi.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq2KLTpi)

[patrick_777]

Saw this on the web, thought it was interesting. The poster (Patrick_777)??rode for a while, parked the bike for 2 minutes and took these temps with an infrared thermometer.
http://www.postimage.org/Pq2JYLAr.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq2JYLAr)

Looks like the hottest spot on the motor is the rear top cylinder head (besides the exhaust pipes). I agree an oil cooler would be a good addition.

HA!

The Internet is circular.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1024 (http://www.gz250bike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1024)

[mr. softie]

Yes I saw that on a site that was all in some foreign language (could not even tell what language) but happened to notice in the text a reference to Patrick_777, after I had posted it, so I edited in your reference. Figured it was you. Great pic with the temps and all.

[Easy Rider]

I agree an oil cooler would be a good addition.

OK, I'll play along.....for a while. How do you figure that an oil cooler will do much to reduce the temperature of the cylinder head.......since that is where the heat originates AND there is precious little oil flow there ??

Another consideration: Oil capacity. In order not to let the level get too low, you would have to ADD enough extra oil to fill the cooler. If much of that drained back to the sump when off, then the "proper" level might be ABOVE the sight glass.

[mr. softie]

There is a bit of oil flow from the camshaft galley as the oil lubricates the valve rockers and camshaft and then moves to the sump. The oil that lubricates the cylinder walls also has a cooling effect on the cylinders and piston. I just have a "gut" feeling that if the oil was cooler it may have a small cooling effect on the whole motor. I realize that the GZ motor was not specifically designed to be oil cooled, so the effects might be less than hoped for. I never thought the GZ motor ran all that hot till I saw Patrick_777's pic. I have read by the way that the oil should not be cooled to less than 190 degrees or so, not sure why, flow maybe?

As far as the oil level goes, without an anti back flow valve in the oil cooler supply line you are correct, the oil level in the sump would be way high at start up, which could lead to blown seals, and at the least making it impossible to check oil level. Another complication.

One of the nice things about the GZ being so simple is that it is well designed and very usable in stock form. If it ain't broke don't fix it. This is probably not such a great mod.

[Quimrider]

I have read by the way that the oil should not be cooled to less than 190 degrees or so, not sure why, flow maybe?

If the oil is not warmed sufficiently, the following 2 desirable things wont happen:
1 Unburned gasoline that finds it way into the oil will evaporate and leave the crank case.
2 Any moisture that may have condensed in the crankcase or moisture from combustion blowby will evaporate and leave the crank case.

Where did you find the pictures of that suzuki with the oil lines going everywhere? From what I can see it doesn't look like that would be to good for the engine.

[Water Warrior 2]

Use the KISS principle. Just use a quality oil that resists thermal breakdown and enjoy the ride.

[mr. softie]

Those pics were on a GSXR site

[Water Warrior 2]

Suzuki has been air/oil cooling bikes for years. I am sure a lot of research and design went into the product before offering it to the public. The oiling system on their sport bikes is designed with oil cooling in mind. I read a couple articles about oil cooling years ago when Suzuki first brought it out and it is not just a case of adding an oil cooler. A lot of internal parts are modified to accommodate oil flow, oil quantity and oil presure as certain points in the engine.

[mr. softie]

What Water Warrior said. I agree. It is beyond the ability of us owners to out engineer the factory engineers IMHO. On the other hand there are aftermarket solutions that address weaknesses in the original design of many products, not that adding an oil cooler is doable on the GZ250. Maybe cabin fever has set in this time of year and our thinking is somewhat faulty. We can't just go for a ride so we start having all sorts of crazy ideas, such as adding oil coolers to our GZ's!

[Water Warrior 2]

For sure Mr. Softie. Idle wheels are the Devils workshop.

[CMS]

I''ve seen other bikes, such as the Suzuki DR200, that have oil coolers on what appears to be the same engine, depending on the market its sold in .The American version of the DR200 does not have an oil cooler, but the Japanese /European ones do . It's sold as a "farm" bike, but it 's the same bike.I think its a logical idea,and with the engine [ GZ250] used in many other bikes, I would not be surprised to see an external oil cooled version somewhere in Suzuki's inventory. CMS

[Joho]

Guys... the GZ is air-cooled for a reason... that reason being that the engine is small enough to not need any of these farkles!

If you're wanting to make sure your oil is at the right temperature, then keep your engine in tip top condition! (Spark plug for correct firing, clean oil filter to remove blockages, and high quality oil!!)

[patrick_777]

Guys... the GZ is air-cooled for a reason... that reason being that the engine is small enough to not need any of these farkles!

I agree with the last part of your post, but this part is not a valid reason.

There are many air-cooled large-bore bikes out there. The 1854cc Yamaha Stratoliner is a good example.

[alanmcorcoran]

True, but it was one of my concerns. The Yamaha gets a lot hotter than the Suzi, but I've burnt something on both of them at this point. You have to use your head - if it's 95 degrees out, don't be sitting out in parking lot traffic for hours at a time. Split the lanes or go park it until you can move. They don't like to sit still.

When I was researching the Yamaha, I read a number of reports of air cooled Harleys (sorry, Sarris) getting so hot their owners couldn't sit on them. But, apparently, if I remember correctly, Harley invented a slick solution - shut down one cylinder when idling (or something like that.) Not sure if it works, but it sounded like a cool idea. Don't think I have that on the Strat.

[Sarris]

My 1996 Suzuki VS-1400 Intruder chopper (my old avatar) was specified as air/oil cooled and did indeed have and oil cooler from the mfgr. The VS-800 Intruder was water cooled. The GZ is third world transpo designed to have low maintenance, cheap to run, and excellent longevity. If the GeeZee needed an oil cooler, Mr Suzuki probably would have put one on.

http://www.postimage.org/gx1oqfM0.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx1oqfM0)

Parade duty Harley's have massive oil coolers. All the 09 Big Twins have an auto rear cylinder shutdown for overheating. (also has manual control by twisting the throttle grip Backwards....hmmmm)

If I get stuck for over 10 mins in traffic I'll find an alternate route. I'm smart enough not to sit there and let the bike (or me for that matter) overheat. Duh.

If the bike is overheating it's too damn hot to ride anyway. It's Guinness time!!

:)

[alanmcorcoran]

Sarris,

I was looking at '07's and the one that seemed to get the worst press was something called an Ultra Classic Electra Glide.

This was a typical thread: http://www.powersportsnetwork.com/enthu ... &veh=38808 (http://www.powersportsnetwork.com/enthusiasts/review_detail.asp?rv=52746&veh=38808)

[Sarris]

It's mainly bikes that have fairing lowers (the part in front of your shin) that is mounted to the crash bar. They block too much air flow. My Streetglide has only the batwing fairing. No lowers, no tour pak (pizza box).

It gets above 95 degress w/ 100% humidity here some summer days and I've never experienced any bike over heating. The fat bastard in the seat overheats looooong before the bike.

BTW, the dude in the article is right that it takes about $2k to make your new $21k HD run right. Air Cleaner kit, FI re-map, pipes, and labor. Most HD guys have no overheating issues unless they are REAL granny drivers or stuck in stop & go traffic for an hour or more w/ high temps.

:lol:

[patrick_777]

...it takes about $2k to make your new $21k HD run right.

...and that is an absolutely f*cking ridiculous concept. A $21k bike should run RIGHT from the first mile, without any tinkering. Hell, a $2k bike should be the same way! :bang:

[alanmcorcoran]

Sarris,

My understanding is, back in '07 anyway, the HD folks blamed the problems on too strict emissions standards. There was a bit of eyebrow raising at this, even in the hard core HD community, when the HD dealers just happened to have all the right add-on/custom stuff (for the 2K mentioned) to correct the issue.

You gotta love HD, they sell a premium priced bike, at full list or over, that has a basic, serious design flaw, and, rather than revolt, it appears many of their loyal patrons willingly paid an extra 2K to put their bikes right. Some of them even chastised the few that had the temerity to complain. It seems like once a company is adopted by the blue collar "real America" (you know, the one Ms. Palin referred too) they will put up with just about anything.

I'm not an American-made hater (I have a Suburban and I like it okay, ten years in an no serious problems, except the @#$-in! radio died) nor am I an HD basher. I sincerely hope that the newer HD's, even if they are still pricey, aren't going the way of 1980's Detroit. If you are going to charge a fat premium, and you have a loyal following of die-hard fans willing to pay it, screwing them over with shoddy product is un-Christian, un-American and, really, unforgivable.

[Sarris]

It's not just HD, its all MC mfgrs as well as EPA standards. Just think how good your GZ would run with an open air cleaner, open pipes, and a re-jetted carb. Same thing with HD. They just market the package better. You can drive an HD just fine without paying the Harley Tax. Its just that they run a herd better afterwards.

HD is NOT a shoddy product, this one I have is 10,000% better than the 78 Sportster I had, just a little old school. Mine has been very reliable, and I've had super dealer service (expensive). Ride one, you'll never go back.

Hell, I spent almost $4k on Baron's stuff and hi-po shit on my (gone) Yamaha 1700 Roadstar. Kinda turdy before, but ran like a raped sheep afterwards.

There is a reason God made the circumference of your ankles smaller than the grip of your palms. You always have a place to hang on.............

:cry:

[mrlmd1]

Sarris,



I'm not an American-made hater (I have a Suburban and I like it okay, ten years in an no serious problems, except the @#$-in! radio died) .

The radio in my '92 Suburban crapped out too about 4 years ago. The stupid thing is in three separate electronic components, one hidden deep underneath the dashboard and almost ridiculously hard to get to and you can't find a replacement anywhere except maybe from a junkyard. Other than that, it's a great vehicle for hauling or towing stuff or going on a long trip. Like a HD except more reliable.

[Sarris]

Hey Alan, after a doing a bit more reading, and speaking to some HD owners, I have found that you are right in the fact that 07 and later HD's are having serious overheating problems. HD tried to solve the problem in the 09 model run with the rear cylinder shutdown deal, but I understand that it doesn't work and the owners are furious. 2007 was the first year for the Twin Cam 96 / 6 speed with all the O2 sensors, catalytic converters, full digital fuel injection, blah, blah, etc. The heat issue REALLY reared it's ugly head with the addition of the catalytic converters for 2007.

Luckily, mine is the first year 2006 StreetGlide with the tried and true TC 88 and nice quiet 5 speed. It is fuel injected but does not have O2 sensors or catalytic converters. It also has a 5 gallon gas tank instead of the ping-pong table sized 6 gallon models installed on the 2007's and up. I have installed the K&N full flow air billet filter, Vance & Hines true duals, and a Screamin' Beagle (sic) ignition module. My bike runs great and never overheats, but my buddy's 2007 model SG runs obviously hotter.

It is my undertanding that all motorcycles will be equipped with catalytic converters beginning with 2010 models. That's also probably the reason we are seeing all bikes going to fuel injection as they can't meet the emission standards otherwise. I'm also fairly sure that 2009 will be the last year for the (carburated) GZ.

As the architecture business is non-existant in my area, I'll not be buying a new bike anytime soon. My HD is 30 months old with just over 32k miles. I gonna keep her for some time. I guess if I ever buy another one, I'll make damn sure the overheating problem is solved. That is if HD survives the great economic upheaval.

Also, here is my new avatar with my bike at Fontana Dam, NC near the Dragon's tail.

http://www.postimage.org/Pqeof5S.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pqeof5S)

:)

[alanmcorcoran]

Yeah, some of the forums and threads I read got pretty, well... heated.

The Strat was often held out as an example of how a big bore air cooled could be done properly. (It's still pretty darn hot though - I can't imagine riding something purported to be MUCH hotter...)

Glad you got yours when the getting was good - it'll be worth a lot some day.

[CMS]

Guys... the GZ is air-cooled for a reason... that reason being that the engine is small enough to not need any of these farkles!

If you're wanting to make sure your oil is at the right temperature, then keep your engine in tip top condition! (Spark plug for correct firing, clean oil filter to remove blockages, and high quality oil!!) /////////// But I'am still at a loss as to why they have oil coolers on the same engine in different sales markets, ex the DR 200.
The Suzuki Van Van [a TU250 style bike] ava in England ,is standard with a 125cc engine, you can order the 200cc version, and it comes with an oil cooler. In my mind the smaller engines, including the GZ250,should have a oil cooler due to the small quanitiy of oil they operate with. I've seen oil cooler kits ava in the Japanese acc books ,but unsure if and how we coud obtain them. CMS

[Quimrider]

I would speculate that similar engines that do have the oil cooling do so for specific reasons. Even small changes in an engine can greatly affect operating temperatures that may make an oil cooler necessary or not. Maybe the DR200 intended to be operated off road may not air cool enuff with an engine caked in dried mud. The oil cooler on the Chinese 350 bike "XI" or "Tank" whoever makes it appears to empty into the valve cover. Possibly the added 100cc displacement would overheat the cylinder head if it didn't receive a constant cool oil bath from the oil cooler.

I am a mechanical engineer. Money is the biggest factor when designing something. If you can't sell it at a price people are willing to pay and make a profit, it matters not how you design it. From my engineering experience you have to look at what the design goals would have been for the GZ250. The engine was already a tried and tested design long before the GZ250 came into existence. Suzuki would have plenty of knowledge as to how the engine stands up to heat and what it's weaknesses are. Typically things are engineered to be "good enuff." With frequent oil changes and proper maintenance the engine may last an acceptable amount of time. Adding an oil cooler may increase the longevity and reliability of the engine but at an additional cost. Seeing as how the GZ250 is aimed as a starter bike. Unless it was absolutely necessary, it would not have made good business sense to spend the extra money making the bike more expensive and lowering profit and possibly losing customers to other bikes such as the Honda Rebel. Of course all this speculation is just a bunch of hot air without specific knowledge of the engineering data for the engine or doing a great deal of testing. It's entirely possible that an oil cooler may be bad for this engine.

My whole reason for even thinking about an oil cooler was that I overheated and warped my cylinder head likely due to too much time wide open throttle on the freeway. I began to try to see if it was possible or even feasible to find a way to better cool the engine. Below are the questions - answers - conclusions that I have arrived at so far.

Is it possible to add an oil cooler to the GZ250? Yes.

Will an oil cooler make any significant difference in engine temps (esp the cyl. head)? Unknown. I speculate it wouldn't significantly affect cyl. head temps as the only oil that gets up there is for the cam.

From my knowledge of air cooled gasoline engines, cylinder head temps less than 350F and oil temp less than 240F are what I consider safe. I don't know what Suzuki's temperature limits are for this specific engine so I may be wrong. If anyone has Suzuki's specs please pass them my way (call me stoopid if these are in the service manual and I have overlooked them). This summer I will monitor my cylinder head temps and oil temps. If they mostly remain under 350F and 240F respectively, I see no need to add an oil cooler. If they do however, I'll try a temporary oil cooler and if it positively affects the temperatures, I'll implement a permanent oil cooler.

[Easy Rider]

In my mind the smaller engines, including the GZ250,should have a oil cooler due to the small quanitiy of oil they operate with.

If the engine has a sufficient amount of surface area on the fins on the upper engine (cylinders), the heat never GETS to the oil. :)

The engine on the DR200 is obviously not exactly the same as the GZ250.......and the anticipated use is not the same either. :cool:

[mr. softie]

My whole reason for even thinking about an oil cooler was that I overheated and warped my cylinder head likely due to too much time wide open throttle on the freeway. I began to try to see if it was possible or even feasible to find a way to better cool the engine.

Maybe a dumb idea but what about trying to duct some additional air over the cylinder cooling fins.
Perhaps as the overheating problem seemed to be most severe at WOT a bit more air would be in order. A scoop/lower fairing maybe. Hmmm :popcorn:

[Easy Rider]

Perhaps as the overheating problem seemed to be most severe at WOT a bit more air would be in order.

One more comment and then I will have said enough on this topic (maybe too much):

We know the head was warped. How do we know that overheating caused this?

IIRC, he said he has a 16T front sprocket. If that is true, I just can't see overheating in 5th gear........unless there is something else to the story. Now if one were to spend a LOT of time at WOT in 4th, then different story maybe.

[adrianinflorida]

My whole reason for even thinking about an oil cooler was that I overheated and warped my cylinder head likely due to too much time wide open throttle on the freeway. I began to try to see if it was possible or even feasible to find a way to better cool the engine.

Maybe a dumb idea but what about trying to duct some additional air over the cylinder cooling fins.
Perhaps as the overheating problem seemed to be most severe at WOT a bit more air would be in order. A scoop/lower fairing maybe. Hmmm :popcorn:The open flow that the fins get now should be sufficient at speed, if anything, you might cause them to get hotter when stopped or cruising slowly if you do too much shrouding.

[Quimrider]

One more comment and then I will have said enough on this topic (maybe too much):

I was thinking the same thing. This topic seems to have rambled on. Later this spring, after I've gotten some temperature readings, I'll post the results and then I think I'll be done with this topic.


We know the head was warped. How do we know that overheating caused this?

Good point. We don't know for sure. I rode to work today in the lovely Ohio liquid sunshine which got me thinking. Since it was leaking on the front of the engine maybe it warped from the water being splashed up on the front of the engine in the rain and this whole oil cooler idea is a waste of time.


IIRC, he said he has a 16T front sprocket. If that is true, I just can't see overheating in 5th gear........unless there is something else to the story. Now if one were to spend a LOT of time at WOT in 4th, then different story maybe.

You recall correctly. I too am not fully convinced that WOT for extended times at about 7K RPM would have caused an overheat and cyl, head warp. I would only down shift to 4th WOT for not more than a few minutes. Just enuff to climb a hill or overcome whatever was slowing me down. I usually shifted back to 5th around 7.5k RPM occasionally going up to but not exceeding 8K RPM. Essentially I don't think I was ever in 4th WOT long enuff to cause a problem.

[CMS]

Thanks to all ,good answers, Quimrider, you make a lot of sense, and it does come down to dollas and cents on everything. :2tup: CMS