Beating the life back in a dead horse...sidecars?

[mainlinecoffee]

Does anyone here run a sidecar on there daily ride? I am trying to enter a bike show in 3 months or so and I am trying to set one up. I am thinking about running a 20 inch tire off the front of a 70s enduros suzuki on a triangular ish frame with a beer keg body, just something for storage and the occasional ride with my elkhound derpy...the whole thing will probably be welded up by a buddy the next town over I just wanted to get an idea if possible from people that run them what should I take note of? Tow camber castor? Mount points? Weight limit? I'm shooting for 45-65 pounds... Any feedback would be apriciated.

[Water Warrior 2]

I would start with an internet search of side car design. You will probably find a few light weight designs for just storage and lighter loads. A passenger side car will be heavier with suspension and stuff that would be a burden for a GZ. Your dog will love the idea.

[alantf]

I remember, back in the 1960s, when there were quite a few Lambretta 150cc scooters with passenger sidecars. I don't know what the performance was like, but I never heard any complaints.index.jpeg (http://www.gz250bike.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=147&stc=1&d=1395481822)

[mainlinecoffee]

I figure 250cc was pretty big until the 60s. Are they solid mount or hinged with buffers? If it's solid I could probly fab it up pretty easy. Do they need shocks?

[Water Warrior 2]

To the best of my knowledge side cars are a solid mount to the bike with the ability to change the geometry for proper steering and control. The suspension is likely optional depending on how much extra weight you want to add. Or you could just suspend the car on a solid frame. Go nuts with your imagination and see what happens. It is your project so any results that satisfy you are the ones that count.

[mainlinecoffee]

I am thinking about just hard tailing my bike for the time and just welding a squarish frame with a extra tire on it I'm not really stressing geometry,I figure if it's good I ride if it's not I bend it til it is. Maybe two mounts on the bottom and two on top and a cross member diagonally just for shits n grins. If the sun comes out this week I will take a trip to the metal depot and see where it goes.

[mainlinecoffee]

The springs on the shocks have been clipped and curled,am I correct in assuming the angle of the 3rd wheel would change depending on the angle of the bike?

[mainlinecoffee]

After 75 minutes of staring reading and contemplating I have made up my mind,I am going to do a leaner sidecar with a single shock on the 3rd wheel but have the tire and shock assembly solid mounted to the car frame. I think it would be lighter and safer In turns, granted I would be lucky to hit 65 mph with the weight but I hardly hit the highways for any distance and have no problem giving the finger to anyone that thinks I should be going 80+ in a 70.

[Water Warrior 2]

The 3rd wheel has to be aligned so the entire rig does not pull to the left or right while riding. This however is at a constant speed only. Accelerating the rig will pull a bit to the right and under braking it will try to go left. Lots of steering input to learn and be aware of to ride safely. A narrow close fitting side car will have less effect on steering but it will always be there.
No more counter steering like you do on 2 wheels. You steer like a car so there is your learning curve again. This is a real danger when you have learned to ride 2 wheels and react with muscle memory and habit. My friend Don crashed his 1st Ural within 15 minutes of buying it. A life time of 2 wheels had to be modified big time. Don healed, the bike was fixed and he proceeded to live on it for 3 or 4 years. His 2nd Ural is still running well and a far better bike than the 1st. His biggest complaint with the 1st was side car alignment. The 2nd rig is a dream with no mind of it's own. He buys tires in bulk when he can. Yeah, he rides that much. Retirement does have advantages.

[mainlinecoffee]

It was my understanding that if the sidecar is hinged to the bike that you still counter steer and lean in,is this Incorrect? Would it only change if it was solid mounted?

[mainlinecoffee]

Did the ural survive?

[Water Warrior 2]

It was my understanding that if the sidecar is hinged to the bike that you still counter steer and lean in,is this Incorrect? Would it only change if it was solid mounted?

To the best of my knowledge there are solidly mounted side cars although I seem to remember a very exotic rig with a side car that leaned with the bike. The engineering and geometry would be a big challenge to get right for a proper set-up.
For a home built rig I would likely try for a solid mount with a couple inches of suspension on the car. This could be accomplished using a shock from a small bike. Your attachments to the bike frame would have to incorporate adjustment capabilities for alignment of the car wheel to track properly. Either that or make it so the side wheel can be adjusted for toe-in or toe-out. I have no clue if castor adjustments would be needed.
Just had a thought. Use the forks and wheel from a smaller bike. Built in suspension and if you can figure a way to mount with the triple tree you have a built in adjuster. Just figure a way to lock it when toe in etc is correct. Also use the side car brake( a drum brake would work)slaved to the rear brake of the bike. A bit complicated but doable at home with some scrounging and used parts.

[Water Warrior 2]

Did the ural survive?

Yup it fared pretty well. The front wheel was destroyed and the windshield was broke when Don went through it. Don had a separated shoulder but healed up nicely. It was hauled home on a flat deck and Don went to the hospital for a check up. Quite an introduction to the side car life but Don wasn't afraid of a repeat. It has been a few years now since that happened.

[mainlinecoffee]

That's awesome that don made it out...I have seen rigs that use sprockets and chains to adjust the car tire to that of the bikes angle but I think I would have to be a Mensa gold star to figure all that out. I was thinking about a rotating plate for adjustments like on a skil saw and just weld it when I get it proper.. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=836987 this is a link to a guy that made a pretty sweet leaning car with a solid mounted shock and tire,I figure use a mc tire and it would ware evenly like the others. He has a clip of it in action somewhere

[Water Warrior 2]

That's awesome that don made it out...I have seen rigs that use sprockets and chains to adjust the car tire to that of the bikes angle but I think I would have to be a Mensa gold star to figure all that out. I was thinking about a rotating plate for adjustments like on a skil saw and just weld it when I get it proper.. http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=836987 this is a link to a guy that made a pretty sweet leaning car with a solid mounted shock and tire,I figure use a mc tire and it would ware evenly like the others. He has a clip of it in action somewhere

WOW!!!!! That guy has some serious talent. The video shows some really nice cornering ability too. Hats off to this fellow.

[mainlinecoffee]

That's what I'm saying,it's a simple design and it seems to work well

[Water Warrior 2]

The only thing I did not notice was a way to align the rig. I would certainly want a method to correct the toe in or toe out. Other than that it is a slick design. Very simple and light weight. Initially I had my doubts about the width of the side car frame until I saw how far it would lean over for cornering.