GZ 250 Forums - Front vs Rear Braking

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- - Front vs Rear Braking (http://www.gz250bike.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5076)

Re: Front vs Rear Braking

A training course is an excellant idea no matter who you are. Newbies who have never ridden will benefit the most and develop their skills very well. Old guys like me waited 50 years and had a bit harder time of it overall. We first have to unlearn the bad and unsafe habits we had been using for decades. Then we start to learn the proper way to safely ride and operate the bike.
Depending where you live will probably determine what is required to earn your bike license. In North America individual states have different requirements and the Canadian provinces are a close second.
Whatever you do for meeting the government requirements always remember there is no excuse for risking your life by not taking advantage of every bit of knowledge available to you. Reading, parking lot practice and understanding how the bike operates is all part of it. Be Smart Be Safe.

Re: Front vs Rear Braking

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gz Rider

One thing that may be going on here is the GZ250 is so light that these techniques may not be as needed as they are on heavier bikes. If these techniques were required, I would have dumped my bike hundreds of times in the last 17,000 miles. I've never had as much as a skid (well once-about 1/2 inch on some pine needles :) )

I could see it as a ratio of rider size and muscle vs. bike weight and wheel base. The course, I imagine, is prepping you to ride any bike.

All that said, I've heard many stories of people dumping bikes during the course.

It's called luck. I'd rather be skilled. The Laws of Motorcycle Physics says slow speed + turned wheel + front brake = dump. Been there, done that and don't need to do it again.

:)

Re: Front vs Rear Braking

Quote:

Originally Posted by PimpS

I don't understand something: when you are talking about the course, you mean a process during you learn the traffic rules, make theory exam, doing practical skills driving the streets and slow practise (driving 8's, stopping the bike from 40km/h, slalom drive, fast slalom drive...) and at the end is a final test which if it is approved by a judge who was watching you and gave you questions about knowing bike and special road situations, and if positive you get your motorcycle license?

Or by course you mean a course which usually lasts for 1 weekend, after you got your motorcycle license, which is good for you to take (not necessarily) just to improve your motorcycle skills? This course we call in Slovenija Training of safe driving, and it is recommended, like said, not obligatory.

thanks for answering, cause sometimes i don't fully understand when thinking of licensed driver, newbie licensed driver or just newbie not licensed driver...

The USA Motorcycle Safety Foundation (MSF) course is two nights of about 3 hours instruction each, followed by a theory exam, and two days of about six hours each on a parking lot with special road markings to indicate practice curves/turns etc. where two instructors teach the class (about 10 people, each with their school-supplied small motorcycle) how to start, turn, brake, switch gears, etc. - practice riding.
After you successfully pass the practical tests as well, you get an MSF certificate. Then, you take the MSF certificate to the Motor Vehicle Administration (MVA) of your state to get an "M" added to your driver's license. Then, you are legal to ride.

The MSF course is also not obligatory. The alternative is the "learner's permit" mentioned above, in that case you can get a learner's permit at the MVA and then at any time when you feel confident enough, you can take the theory and pratical exams at the MVA, and after you pass you get an "M"" on your license.

The MSF also has courses for advanced riders, where you take your own bike, at other times but at the same location.

Then, "newbie" has no legal meaning or anything, it means either someone who has just started riding or someone who has joined this forum and made less than 10 or so posts.

Re: Front vs Rear Braking

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gz Rider

I've never seen (or experienced) this issue of rear braking on slow turns as Mole2 and Blaine describe. Is this technique in Proficient Motorcycling or another source?

One way I like to look at this concept is looking at those racing bicycles on the velodrome. They move extremely slowly, and often come to complete stops on the bike, feet on the pedals, with the brake engaged and pushing down on the pedals. It just stands the bike up.

If you haven't seen this try to youtube a velodrome race. They'll stand there like that for long periods of time, and then suddenly one of them will bust out and start riding like crazy and the race is on. It's some kind of tactical thing, but on a motorcycle, using the back brake with the motor engaged, you can often slow to a standstill at a stoplight without putting your foot down at all.

Re: Front vs Rear Braking

Also, in the courses, they say to always (except in a very slow speed turn) use both brakes, and that's mainly to avoid the bad habit that people get in of just relying on one brake or the other. That can work in many situations, but when you have to stop *now* you'll want to have that reflex of using both of the brakes because the bike *will* stop quicker that way.

(even though, as stated before, 75-100% of the braking can end up on the front wheel due to the weight of the bike shifting forward during deceleration)

Re: Front vs Rear Braking

As greatmaul says you can come to a stop without putting your foot down. This is a practiced method of stopping and also a good one. You have both feet at the foot controls for the longest time possible. That is where they should be just in case you suddenly need to make a quick exit in case another vehicle wants your space. You should be able to just put your "left" foot down as you come to a stop while your right foot stays on the rear brake to hold the bike stationary. You should have also just finished shifting down into 1st gear before dropping your left foot. That way the bike is stable and balanced. Both hands are ready for the forward movement.
Another reason for the rear brake only when stopped is a safety factor. Just in case you get nudged or bumped from behind the bike will be the most stable. The bike may get moved forward a bit but you can hold it up. If you have the front brake applied you will probably drop it and you may get hurt in the process. The forces involved are basically the same ones that come into play when using the front brake for very slow riding. The bike can be easily upset and down you go.
Riding is a serious endeavor and good safe habits need to be developed to make riding and safety an automatic action. It is better to learn safe habits first so you don't have to unlearn them at a later date.

Re: Front vs Rear Braking

Another way to think of it is that the front brake is used for scrubbing off most of the speed, the rear brake is for fine tuning and stopping, or once you get to slower speeds. You have to know when and how to use both.

Re: Front vs Rear Braking

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrlmd1

Simple and to the point. big +

Re: Front vs Rear Braking

There are a few standard and important "good" habits to exercise, such as downshifting approaching a normal stop. This allows engine braking to scrub off speed at a controlled rate. Braking shouls ALWAYS be performed with the bike vertical. I only use the rear brakes as an aid in helping to come to a more abrupt stop (or riding 2up). I personally do not keep my feet on the pegs until the very last stopping point. I favor the "walk" method for the last 5 feet or so. It's also VERY important to keep and eye in the mirrors for an approaching car from behind. Always keep your bike IN GEAR while stopped and allow yourself at least 10 ft of space from the car in front of you as this will allow a quick left or right exit if you are in fact seeing an approaching car at high speeds (Ie possibly getting rear ended). The only reason I tend to "walk" my bike to a stop is to ensure balance and secure footing when actually coming to a stop. I've seen so many riders come rolling to an "imbalanced" stop, and abruptly drop the bike on it's side. One can argue against my walk method, but it's worked perfect and secure for me for over 25 years.... so again to each his own..