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Ammo Can Saddle Bags
I mounted two M2A1 aka 50cal ammo cans as saddle bags today. They work well but are really to small. My rain suit takes up a whole can. I have learned a lot doing this and I didn't mess up a $200 set of hard bags trying figure out how to do it. Ammos cans cost $5 each. I intend for this to be an on going project experimenting with hard bags for the GZ250.
For those who don't know what an M2A1 ammo can looks like: http://upload4.postimage.org/1462334...Ammo_Can02.jpg |
When you get a chance a few pictures with text on the mounting methods would be great. This is a great idea for an inexpensive and secure set of saddle bags. I'm not in the market for a set of saddle bags since both my wife and I ride solo and carry what we need in tail bags. But if there is a way to mount these with a quick (yet secure) release then I would be more than just tempted.
Cheers! |
I plan on photos and some instructions on how to do it. I started with these cans because I hve 50 of them. The next size up is a SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon) box. I only have two of these so I'm not real keen on drilling holes in them until I've settled on the mounting hardware. Current mounting hardware consists of 5/16" treaded rod lock nuts, regular nuts, regular washers, fender washers and a stainless steel bag support I got off eBay, They can be removed by opening the lids and removing two lock nuts and fender washers.
Why do it? I have not found any bags made for a GZ250 that are much more than decorative and none that I would consider secure. I want to carry better tools on my bike and leave them there all the time. I want to carry minor spare parts such as bulbs, fuses, and tire repair kits. I want to carry a digital camera and have secure storage for this on the bike. I have a Concealed Weapons Permit and go armed almost everywhere. There are a few places I need to go that I can't carry and I need secure storage. There are very few hand guns bigger than your typical mouse gun that will easily fit under the GZ250 seat. A full sized 1911 would be totally out of the question. In other words I have a real need for hard, lockable, water proofstorage that can't easily be removed from the bike. Ammo cans fit the bill and they are cheap to boot. I'm also considering making hard bags from fiberglass or adapting some other existing boxes or bag. Pelican boxes? If anyone has any ideas they would like to contribute I would like to hear them. Future plans include:
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A very dirty BMW with ammo can panniers. It's 20mm can I think.
http://upload4.postimage.org/1465406...s2_Mike789.jpg http://upload4.postimage.org/1465409...s3_Mike789.jpg http://upload4.postimage.org/1465412...s5_Mike789.jpg |
Haha, thats pretty awesome Bob. Great work on those! Are you going to paint them to match the bike once you get it all how you want it?
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Yes, I plan to paint them. Right now I'm thinking just some glossy black with some reflective decals. I have those on my one of my helmets and they really light up in head lights. That sparkly Suzuki black might be hard to do in my garage. When I came up with this idea I wanted to leave them green with the 50cal stencil on the outside. I never could find one that had not been painted over.
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Love the .50 Cal ammo cans on the bike Bob. They're the perfect size for the GZ250. I will be heading out the military surplus store this weekend to get me some. Wish I would have saved a bunch of them when I was in the service. Would definately know how you mounted them once you get a final setup.
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The small Harbor Freight tool bags (on sale now for $3.99) are a perfect fit for the 50cal cans. They are almost exactly the same dimensions as the in side of the box. Stops the rattle from hard objects in the boxes and lets me just reach in and grab all the contents and go. If you hace a sissy bar and need more room you can hang the tool bag from the handles no tie downs required.
You might want to look at SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon) boxes. These are a bit larger. A gallon milk jug will fit in to one. You are going to love how easy it is to get into these. Beats the hell ot of velcro and zippers. |
Gee, that looks pretty cool. The black with the green works as it is. I have a hard time adding stuff to my bike, I like what a bike looks like alone the best. I usually ride with a webbed extra helmet tie down holding a 6-pack cooler bag with the stuff I need. That way, when I dont need anything, the bike is plain. Most things I add are hidden or REALLY needed. I would love to add a windshield, and BadBob you got in one of these photos, is the windshield I want! Is it quick to remove and attach? One of the ways to stop the handle from rattlin' is to keep it in the upright position. That wouldnt look bad in my opinion either.
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Heck, I even have removed the rear seat on many occasions. I plan to fill in the hole and permantly remove it. Noone I know can sit there anyway.
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Then you will probably like Bungee Nuts. They replace the acorn nuts on your fender and shock bolts. Very easy to connect bungees especially tho type with the ball and loop designed for holding down tarps. |
I prefer to ride the bike with nothing on it at all. I don't even like the sissy bar. However, for me this is not practical. If you only ride on weekends when the weather is nice, don't get to far from home, never go shopping on your bike, and don't stray to far from the beaten path this works. I ride every day weather and circumstances permitting. I ride pretty far off the beaten path. In spite of what the phone companies say most cell phones do not work very far out side of densely populated areas or major highways. If you have a flat you fix it yourself on the side of the road or get ready to do some serious walking. I take long rides occasionally. As much as 475 miles in a day so far. I need to carry tools and parts as well as rain gear clothing in some sort of secure lockable storage that can't be easily be removed with out tools. For commuting I want easy access I don't want to spend 40 minutes a day loading and unloading my bike. After trying lots of stuff I decided that this was the way to go. So far its working well except that the boxes are to small. My rain gear completely fills one box. I ride in the rain.
Why not adapt plastic boxes? There are plastic boxes available but after reading some stories about what happens to them when they hit the ground I decided that this was not a solution. They break spilling your gear and they are expensive. Sometimes very expensive. Why not leather? Expensive! Not lockable. Not capable of carrying much weight. High maintenance. Can't keep the rain out of them. |
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I isolated the rattle. Its caused by the saddle bag support. I inserting an LRF (Little Rubber Foot) between the support and the can stopped it. The handles rattle but only if you hit something large like a speed bump.
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I was a bit concerned about covering up my side marker reflectors with the dark green boxes I decided to add some. I found some reflectors for $1.94 and put them on the rear lower corners. They are the same shape as the stock ones but a bit bigger. I got to looking at all the flat space on these things and got to thinking that's a lot of paces to put lights and LEDs are small.
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I'm gonna do the ammo cans. Anyone got any info on how to put a lock on them?
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I did some thing similar to this.
http://www.alpharubicon.com/bovstuff/lo ... mocant.htm Use all stainless steel parts if you can get them. Use SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon) boxes instead of 50BMG. They fit better and carry more. Use lock nuts and RTV in everything that goes through the side of the box for security and waterproofing. Replace fender bolts with bolts that have threads all the way to the head. Use long bolts and cut to fit after the box gets mounted. Use regular nuts for spacers with the last one being a lock nut threaded on the bolt backwards. Use fender washers coated with RTV inside and out. Pad the bottom o f the box to prevent rattles when carrying small items. Automotive fuel line makes a good cushion to prevent rattles. http://robertkeeney.com/gallery/d/23...n_Panniers.jpg |
love the cans
:rawk: I have looked at the army surplus store for three years and kept thinking, "how can I make that work?" "Will that work?" "Will it be too heavy." Anyway, good job.
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Gotta love the durability of a steel box. I doubt any weight factor would be a problem for the bike unless riding 2 up and packing a lot of gear.
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I have a collection of photos of bikes with various ammo cans and an assortment of other containers attached to them. GZ250s, BMWs, KTMs, KLR560s, Honda Rebels, and even a Harley. Thye might give you som more ideas.
http://tinyurl.com/288xh3 Weight isn't much of a problem so longs you don't carry any thing very heavy. Once you get over 20-30lbs you might want to consider building a rack. In my current method the only support is the fender bolts with a saddle bag support helping to prevent them from sagging under the weight. I uses Tap Bolts to replace the fender bolts. These are threaded all the way to the head. Nuts are used as spacers to get it to the right spot and so I can easily remove them. I don't want to have to put my hand under the fender to get them off. |
Hey BadBob,
Are you the Robert in Tallahassee on the Honda Rebel forum also? If so, I will see you at the Franklin rally. I am riding my gz down from Indiana for the rally. I want to see those ammo cans and how you have them set up. Later |
Yep that would be me.
I'm a member of the 2500cc group and the GZ250 group on Yahoo. I'm planning to go to this provided everyting works out at work. Two GZ250s in a herd of Rebels. |
I wish I could find an Army Surplus around here. Used to find them everywhere but there are no longer any in my area. :-(
Unless someone knows of one in southern Indiana or Louisville, Ky? |
I've got the same problem In Tallahassee. There is only one and its not very good.
I get mine off ebay and at gun shows. At the larger gun shows there is just about always someone selling ammoc ans. SOmetime they are full of ammo and you have to shoot it all before you can use the can. :) Even paying the shipping cost its way cheaper to buy them on ebay than getting them at the local store. I bought a pallet full of 50BMG boxes from a guy about 200 miles form me. Including picking them up it only cost me me about $4.00 each. |
Badbob,
An Idea on how to make the ammo cans quickly removable so you can take them with you. on the inside of the box use a wing nut either welded or expoxied to a a fender washer. drill a small hole thru the bolt near the end for a locking pin so that the wing nuts don't rattle loose and fall off while you're riding. I may try this myself if I ever find the time. |
You carry tools right? Just take the nut off. If you carry a ratcheting wrench in the box you'll have them off in no time.
I've looked at all the common hardware available in my area and the best thing I could come up with was a clevis pin. The problem I have with this is that it can't be made water tight. When you tighten the nut and washer and to have a gasket inside and out it seals. I've been through some heavy downpours and not got a drop inside. What is really needed is an adjustable cam lock/latch. I know they make them but I can't find one. I probably don't have the name right. |
Don't Limit Yourself to Ammo Cans
There might be something readily available in your area.
Some things I've seen used:
If the back of the box is flat you can use it easy. If not you may need to do a bit of design and testing to get it mounted so its vertical. You could even make them out of plywood. Yes I have seen this done. I've been considering attempting to make something out of fiberglass but I have not figured out how to get it to seal yet. |
That gives me some ideas. Only problem is how to make it such that some punk doesn't walk by and walk off with your ammo can and it's contents.......
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Lock It
The whole reason I went to the ammo cans was security. You can't cut it with a knife. Unless you have metal cutting tools your not going to get it off if its locked.
What ever kind of mount you use be sure you put the fasteners in the box and do what you can to keep them from turning. I've though about drilling through the nut and bolt on the inside of the box and putting a piece of safety wire or a pin through it so there would be no chance of getting it off with a wrench. There is very little chance of getting it off now with all those lock nuts. Some one who really wants whats in the ammo cans and has the time and the tools will get in. You can't stop that. Most thefts are crimes of opportunity. Snatch and grab some call it. If its difficult to get to get into your ammo cans they will go on to something easier. Locked ammo cans are definitely not easy to get open. If you mount some 20mm cans they are not going to run far with your stuff. The cans empty weight 20lbs each. |
Broken Bolt
We went for a ride Sunday. After about an hour I spotted a shady spot to park and pulled over for a butt break and a drink of water. When I stopped I took my gloves off first and reached back to place them on tho p the right can and the dropped to the ground. The right SAW box was hanging by one bolt. The front bolt had snapped. I took th tool bag out and mounted it on the luggage rack with on of the bungee nets I carry and padded the end of the bolt with some tape. Then use two nylon cable ties to hold it up right. I put a little tape on the end of the bolt to protect the chrome. I should have taken a photo with the can dangling down but I didn't think about the camera until it was done.
http://upload3.postimage.org/11788/2...en_Bolt_01.jpg http://upload3.postimage.org/11845/2...en_Bolt_02.jpg I rode 150 miles with the can tied on with cable ties. I now carry a spare bolt and some nuts. |
well I got me some fat 50 cal. aka SAW boxes. I made some custom mounting brackets out of 3/16" Al. I wanted to move the cans back to where they are just in front of the rear turn signals. The mounting plate is attached to the 2 existing bolts and then the ammo can bolts to the plate so that I could mount it further toward the back. My design sacrificed the ability to quickly and easily remove the cans for simplicity. I still need to paint them and put locks on. I don't know how I got by without these. I'll post some pics when I get them off my camera and/or when I get them painted. If there's interest I'll write up a how to so that someone can easily copy my design.
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Any effect on ride or stability?
Quimrider,
I have been thinking about BadBob's ammo can storage for a while. Your idea is an interesting twist, my concern is how moving the weight behind the rear axle effects the handling and stability of the bike. How far back is the center of the can from the axle center? BadBob's cans appear to be roughly centered over the axle. Your design seems to be shifting the weight fairly dramatically rearward - something I have heard can be dangerous. Thanks for sharing. -Bob |
Quimrider, I don't think the weight would be a problem unless the boxes were really loaded with heavy stuff like a lot of tools or a bunch of fresh steaks for a major BBQ. Whatever weight there is is lower than a passenger and only a little further back than a passenger. The GZ would probably easily carry 25 lbs per side in each box.
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I'm not really sure how far back they are, I"ll upload the pictures when I get home from work if I remember. If memory serves me right the center of the ammo can is roughly lined up with the base of the sissy bar.
Quite frankly I was surprised that I couldn't even tell they were there aerodynamically or weight wise. I could only see weight being remotely a problem if you were loading them with bricks. The heaviest thing I've carried was a gallon jug of water. |
Great!
Sounds good - I look forward to seeing the cans and your bracket design. Could be my next project, the slanted vinyl bags I currently have on there are fairly useless for carrying anything of size or value.
Thanks! -Bob |
here's my design for the mounting plate. My original design was for 5.25" x 1/4" thick Al. plate, but I modified it for the 5.5" x 3/16" that I found laying around.
The angled cut was to clear the shock absorber. If I remember I'll post the pictures when I get home. http://www.postimage.org/aVPcHc0.jpg anybody want to buy my OEM suzuki saddle bag supports that I don't need any more? You don't need to flame me, I plan to post it in the for sale section when I get around to it. |
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