some tips to keep you from dumping the bike.

[dannylightning]

1 never try to skid your back tire and jam on the front break instead of the rear breaks haha :tongue:

2 be really careful when backing up, that seems to be one of the easiest way to loose your balance, always stay flat footed when backing

3 ( EDIT) once you stop be very careful when you start out from a dead stop with your bars turned at full lock (till you get the hang of it), i almost dumped a bike a few times doing that my fist month or two of motorcycling

4 don't think you can put your feet down to stop like your on a bicycle, its too heavy for that (i had a tendency to try and put my feet down to stop when barley moving like i always did on my bicycle) don't put your feet down and plant them on the ground firmly till the bike has stopped moving completely (after all those years on a bicycle it was hard for me to break this habit) it would be quite easy to loose your balance doing this.

5 don't do wheelies :neener:

6 when you need to slow down fast down shift hard and break hard but not too hard or your gonna skid out. i use my clutch to slow down way more than i use the breaks, unless i have to stop fast than ts down shift a few times fast as possible while breaking. (please see explanation posted below)

7 when stopping with your bars turned at full lock you can easily loose your balance, especially if you hit the front break hard (that almost got me a few times my first few months of riding)

8. put your bike in gear and chock the wheels when you are doing any ting to it. if the bike rolls forward a little the kick stand can move and the bike will fall.

[patrick_777]

Originally Posted by dannylightning

1 never try to skid your back tire and jam on the front break instead of the rear breaks haha :tongue:

2 be really careful when backing up, that seems to be one of the easiest way to loose your balance, always stay flat footed when backing

3 once you stop never start driving with your bars turned all the way, i almost dumped a bike a few times like that. wait till you get going a little to turn the bars. and dont cut the bars all and than stop with the bars turned all the way.

4 dont think you can put your feet down to stop like your on a bicycle, its too heavy for that (i had a tendency to try and put my feet down to stop when barley moving like i always did on my bicycle) don't put your feet down on the ground till the bike has stopped moving

5 don't do wheelies :neener:

6 when you need to slow down fast down shift hard and break hard but not too hard or your gonna skid out. i use my clutch to slow down way more than i use the breaks, unless i have to stop fast than ts down shift a few times fast as possible and kind of hard on the breaks but not too hard.

Sounds like someone needs a BRC class. #3 is taught in there and is a basic skill. Not only is it entirely possible, it's actually safer than otherwise because you control your starting line. You should be able to take off from full-lock at any given moment. #6 is actually dangerous if you think you can stop faster with the transmission than with the brakes. Unless you have a slipper clutch, you're actually pretty likely to engine brake the back tire into a skid than slow down gradually. The brakes are meant for stopping the bike, and if you're locking the back, you're putting too much pressure on it. Get to a parking lot and do some emergency braking exercises quick, or you're going to regret not knowing how to stop properly when you actually need to.

Seriously, take the class...and read this site: http://www.msgroup.org/articles.aspx

[dannylightning]

ok well i guess number 3 sucks but here is the . explination of #6

the breaks are only going to stop you so fast, if you hit the breaks too hard they are going to lock up witch probably happens a lot when people are in need of a quick stop. if you break and down shift at the same time (the right way) you can stop much much faster than with just the breaks alone. and i feel that is a major safety tip, that is if you know how to down shift properly,

note. i have been driving stick shift cars for 15 years. and have always downshifted to help slow down, if done right its not going to hurt any thing, its going to be a big help and it saves on your break pads plus it keeps you in the correct gear for when you want to accelerate again and that is important.

only down shift one gear at a time never down shift hard from 5th to 3rd or from 5th to 2nd or you can run in to problems, if you are not good at down shifting please learn and get good at it. it just might come in handy some day.

when i slow down gradually i almost never hit the breaks till i actually come to a dead stop. if there is some one behind me ill hit the breaks a little just so the break light comes on, that way the guy behind me knows I'm stopping, I'm not one of those people that race up to the stop sign and slow down at the last second. when i know i halve to stop i start slowing down gradually right than and there. the clutch works great for gradual slowing and works great to assist you when you need to stop fast, if done the right way it can save your ass

and i stand by that.

[alantf]

Originally Posted by dannylightning

i have been driving stick shift cars for 15 years. and have always downshifted to help slow down,

In England, automatic cars are rare. The majority are manual change. In fact, in England you have to take the driving test in a manual car, or you only get a licence to drive automatics. I've been driving for over 45 years,& while changing down as you stopped was necessary, many years ago, before disc brakes were fitted, this no longer applies. Disc brakes have shortened the stopping distance out of all recognition to what it was when cars had drum brakes all round. Another factor to take into consideration is that nowadays, all cars have power assisted brakes (which we never had, years ago). It is generally accepted that slowing down with brakes causes less strain on the engine.

The only exception to this is that when I took the driving test for buses, I had to bring the bus to a stop from 30mph, using gears only - to prove that I could stop the bus in the event of brake failure. Even this is no longer included in the test. Apart from that, I was taught that when stopping (using the brakes) I should NOT change down until I had slowed to the appropriate speed for the lower gear. We were also taught to "double declutch" when changing to a lower gear, to stop any jekiness. That means - on clutch/off accelerator, into neutral. Off clutch, rev up until revs match engine speed. on clutch/into lower gear. accelerate away. This was ALWAYS necessary before buses were fitted with synchromesh gearboxes, but it carried on, later, as a good way to change gear smoothly.

(note :- I was an electrician, but used to drive buses when there was no work around - just to feed my family!)

[dannylightning]

no one likes my post that is how i was tought to drive a vehicle with a clutch, and on my bike downshifting did save my ass once.

i was doing about 55 or so and looking over at something. when i looked back there was a car stopped right in front of me i jamed on the breaks and realized i was not going to stop in time, there was oncoming traffic and a big ditch on the other side of the road, decided i cant go off to the side so i started downshifting too, the bike started slowing down right quick. i truly believe that is the only reason i was able to stop in time.

if you are good at down shifting in a emergency situation it could come in handy. i am not saying you should down shift to slow the bike down all the time but im saying people should really learn how just in case you ever need to.

[alantf]

Originally Posted by dannylightning

i am not saying you should down shift to slow the bike down all the time but im saying people should really learn how just in case you ever need to.

Brake failure? :jo:

[Sarris]

I use a combination of downshifting and braking in all situations. I use about 60% front brake & 40% rear. This makes for stops as fast and short as required for the situation.

With a rear disc brake, HD glides have a nasty tendancy to lock up the rear wheel, so balanced brake usage is a must.

Also, backing up with the bars at lock is a good way to dump the bike.

:biggrin:

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by dannylightning

no one likes my post

i truly believe that is the only reason i was able to stop in time.

I like your post just fine.
It gets people thinking and talking about safety and proper riding (stopping) technique.

I gotta disagree with your idea about downshifting in an emergency situation. There may be some mental advantage.....like stopping a "target fixation" brain freeze.....but all engine braking does is increase the stopping rate on the back wheel. Whatever you gained with downshifting could also have been accomplished with the back brake.

It is my opinion that if you are in a situation where a maximum straight line stop is ALL you can do and you have to nail it perfectly or you will crash into an object.......you don't have time to divert part of your brain activity over to the shifter; it should all be directed to nailing the brakes just short of a lockup.

NOW......if we're talking an "almost" emergency, where you have a second to analyze the situation and may have an out by swerving.....then downshifting is a good thing to do.

I don't think I have sufficient experience or skill to make that determination in a split second so I tend to hammer the brakes in almost every "OH CRAP....." situation. Someday I may find myself in a situation where that is the wrong thing to do but so far, so good.

[dannylightning]

Originally Posted by Easy Rider

I like your post just fine.
It gets people thinking and talking about safety and proper riding (stopping) technique.

I gotta disagree with your idea about downshifting in an emergency situation. There may be some mental advantage.....like stopping a "target fixation" brain freeze.....but all engine braking does is increase the stopping rate on the back wheel. Whatever you gained with downshifting could also have been accomplished with the back brake.

It is my opinion that if you are in a situation where a maximum straight line stop is ALL you can do and you have to nail it perfectly or you will crash into an object.......you don't have time to divert part of your brain activity over to the shifter; it should all be directed to nailing the brakes just short of a lockup.

NOW......if we're talking an "almost" emergency, where you have a second to analyze the situation and may have an out by swerving.....then downshifting is a good thing to do.

I don't think I have sufficient experience or skill to make that determination in a split second so I tend to hammer the brakes in almost every "OH CRAP....." situation. Someday I may find myself in a situation where that is the wrong thing to do but so far, so good.

it's all about not panicking and keeping cool. i drive a big box truck for a living, i cant even tell you how many accidents i have avoided. i no longer freak out or get shaken when something like that is about to happen. i just react to the situation, i guess its just kind of instinct any more. when your driving around town for 8-12 hours a day you tend to run in to a lot of dummies out on the road. and i have a lot of exp with a clutch

kind of like a martial arts guy, some one goes to punch you in the face out of the blue well your probably gonna get hit in the face. but the martial arts guy who has lot of practice will probably just block the punch with out even thinking about it. some things just become second nature i guess.

[mrlmd1]

I also very much have to disagree with downshifting in a sudden panic stop. First off, most of the weight is shifted forward during deceleration to the front wheel, and this probably provides 80% of the braking force - the friction of the front wheel rubber on the road.
The fastest way to stop is to disengage the clutch (and power to the driving rear wheel) and apply the brakes, just max of locking up the wheels and skidding. Skidding, thereby rubbing the tires on the road, is not as effective as proper braking before the tires break loose from road contact, just like laying down the bike is not an effective way to stop because metal and skin have less friction on the road surface than does good rubber.
Downshifting first off wastes time, diverts focus from the main task of stopping quickly, has a much higher chance of locking up the rear wheel, and is not recommended anywhere in MSF or any other training class or in any book about motorcycling and handling and safety.
I would strongly suggest you take a proper course and try to unlearn what you are doing and learn it right, and read as much as you can to educate yourself some more and stay out of trouble.
The brakes on a bike and the weight of a bike compared to a car are not at all comparable, and what you learned driving a car doesn't apply to a 2 wheeled motorcycle.
Brakes are also a lot cheaper to replace than a transmission or clutch if you screw it up.