New cold record for myself

[patrick_777]

Yeah, weather can get you anywhere. No forecast is ever dead on and every ride is a judgment call. Alan did good getting home safely and it sounds like like a learning experience, as almost every ride should be.

[Moedad]

Originally Posted by alanmcorcoran

So, it's 1:30 in the morning, my daughter and wife and leaving today for Monterrey and are probably asleep, it's effing cold and wet, and, now, foggy.

Good enough for me. I wouldn't want to get my wife or daughter to come and get me in one of those neighborhoods at 1:30 am, fog or no fog.

[mrlmd1]

You 3 guys will defend everyone to the death for whatever. I like Alan too, and feel like he's sort of a friend, and would like to keep him as well as the rest of us around here longer. I don't want to hear that one of us got wiped out in a crash or accident.
There's a difference between getting suddenly caught in bad weather and pea soup fog and continuing barreling down a crappy surfaced highway at 65ish for 70 miles, and being more prudent and slowing down to 45-50, not outdriving your lights and forward vision, etc, if it's that bad out. The impression he gave was that he was going as fast as he possibly could, "not being able to see shit" over the windshield ahead of him, just to get home. Was he going fast for fear of being run down by another speeding car? You would have to admit it's a disaster waiting to happen, and I am just as glad as Alan, and you, that he made it home alright. It's still not a good thing for anyone to do and the fact that you get away with it doesn't make it right. At least he got home vertical instead of horizontal.
It's not a matter of lightening up, I was well aware of the exact sort of response I would get from posting that comment, but that's my opinion. If I can't voice it, or any else on here can't voice it, then have fun with your forum, I'm outta here. Now you can post your opinion back to me again.

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by mrlmd1

It's not a matter of lightening up, I was well aware of the exact sort of response I would get from posting that comment,

OK, so if you KNEW what the reaction would be ......and it happened......then what's the problem?? :??:

MY problem is that you appear to have missed a couple of critical factors in the equation:

1) Apparently you don't have much experience driving on California freeways.
2) Alan doesn't strike me as a fool-hardy person so I assume that he did what he thought was prudent and proper under the circumstances.
3) It is possible to comment on his decision without being nasty: "I ain't buying your excuse" comes across as arguementative and inflamatory.

Posting things like Alans did can be (and has been) very informative for newer riders. This one might encourage people to think more about the return trip before they go out......and/or get a weather forecast. If you continue to deride and belittle people who post "Boy I screwed up" stories then THEY might go away........instead of you.

Some people deserve a dope slap but that is few and far between and I certainly don't believe this is one of those situations where it is appropriate.

You have been a valuable member of the forum for some time now. You are not afraid to critisize someone when you think it is appropriate. Alas, you don't seem to be able to TAKE it very well when some criticism comes BACK. If our being honest with YOU is going to upset you, well then maybe it is better that you do leave. Sad.

[Moedad]

Originally Posted by mrlmd1

You 3 guys will defend everyone to the death for whatever.

Not to the death. Not me. Not everyone.

I like Alan too, and feel like he's sort of a friend, and would like to keep him as well as the rest of us around here longer. I don't want to hear that one of us got wiped out in a crash or accident.

Me neither.

There's a difference between getting suddenly caught in bad weather and pea soup fog and continuing barreling down a crappy surfaced highway at 65ish for 70 miles, and being more prudent and slowing down to 45-50, not outdriving your lights and forward vision, etc, if it's that bad out. The impression he gave was that he was going as fast as he possibly could, "not being able to see shit" over the windshield ahead of him, just to get home.

That is kind of dumb. Alan, you bonehead. :whistle: Imprudent as it may've been, it also may've been about the best choice.

Was he going fast for fear of being run down by another speeding car?

That'd be my guess. Trying to match the flow of traffic.

You would have to admit it's a disaster waiting to happen...

Yup. Nobody's saying it was anything but

...and I am just as glad as Alan, and you, that he made it home alright. It's still not a good thing for anyone to do and the fact that you get away with it doesn't make it right. At least he got home vertical instead of horizontal

It's not a matter of lightening up, I was well aware of the exact sort of response I would get from posting that comment, but that's my opinion. If I can't voice it, or any else on here can't voice it, then have fun with your forum, I'm outta here. Now you can post your opinion back to me again.

Heck yeah, you can voice your opinion. Alan's said before that he has a thick skin. He said right up front he expected to take some flak. IMO, he was sharing an experience that we can all relate to to one degree or another, and that none of us would've liked. He never said it was a model example. You're not saying (at least I don't think you are) he's a dumbass with no hope of ever being anything else, but you're saying he did something dumb. Yeah. Dumb is relative sometimes too. Maybe even necessary. I probably would've done the same thing he did, and I would've been cringeing and wincing and whimpering the whole way. Maye he was too. It still would been better than having my wife come out to any of those neighborhoods along the 605 on a foggy post-New Year's Eve, and better than riding the surface streets with a higher chance of being run down.

IMO, one of the things this forum is about is to share these kinds of experiences as war stories of a sort, and so we and others might learn from them. Isn't that what we're here for?

[Moedad]

And hey, how about that crazy Dupo, riding in 19 degrees. :whistle:

[Dupo]

21 last night.

[mrlmd1]

I'm not trying to come off nasty, if that's how it came off to you, then I'm sorry.
Let me tell you where I'm coming from, not necessarily in proper order.
1.) As a cardiac, thoracic (chest), vascular, trauma surgeon in my previous life, I've seen and cared for too many people in devastating, mutilating accidents, with severe head and facial injuries, chest injuries (fractured ribs, punctured lungs, cardiac contusions, major vessel injuries with massive bleeding, abdominal injuries (fractured livers, ruptured spleens, internal bleeding), pelvic and long bones fractures, loss of skin and soft tissue, etc. If you are lucky enough to survive the initial insult, you may be looking at possible major life/limb-saving surgery and weeks or months in a hospital or rehab facility, and when you finally "recover", believe me, you will never be the same.
2.) From all the information in this country and Europe, from the MSF, even in Proficient Motorcycling, and written up elsewhere, motorcyclist go through different stages - my quick summary, initially some fear or intrepidation, then with more experience, confidence, then overconfidence, then, hopefully, a step back towards reality and further expertise before you wind up like in #1 above.
3.) It's up to us as individuals to be the most careful about guarding our own safety and well-being, always making some kind of judgment or decision about risk/benefit ratios and the like. We are all responsible for our own behavior and our own safety. and should hopefully make those decisions with a clear head (like obviously, drugs or alcohol don't mix with motorcycles, there's too many things going on all at once not to have your thinking and coordination impaired).
3.) I am not singling out AC or trying to be nasty or chastise him, but let me use him as an example for argument's sake.(Sorry Alan). If you don't agree with me, that's fine, do what you want, but I think most of you deep down would feel the same way as I do.
4.) I have read all of AC's posts since his joining this group about 6 months ago, and have seen him progress through the various stages, as we all do/did, ie., getting up to 70mph on the highway in traffic and riding at night.
5.) What he conveyed above as to what he learned, was that windshields and faceshields and bifocals have no wipers on them, not that he learned he was in a dangerous situation and how he would have avoided it next time, or done something different to cope with his surroundings. Like maybe put on his turn signal flashers to try and make himself more visible? Maybe slow down a little? Would you drive your car with your head out the window at 65mph if you couldn't see for shit in the fog through your windshield while driving over a crappy road? It's just as easy to run off the exit ramp in conditions like that. Teach us all something we didn't already know and own up to yourself. If the weather and conditions are so crappy, call a cab, call a friend to pick you up, stay overnight or a few more hours where you are and see if the weather clears. There's lots of other choices to consider.
6.) If he was my kid, I would have lovingly greeted him when he got home with a big open-armed hug, then probably spanked the crap out of him for excersizing such poor judgement when he knows better. AC, whether the champagne had anything to do with his judgment or not, I see, at least in this isolated instance, is getting into the overconfident stage, and I don't want to see him get hurt.
7.) Not for nothing and none of my business, isn't New Year's one of those times you spend with your wife together? I really don't want to go there, but if my wife didn't want to go or had to stay home 'cause she's leaving the next day, I would have been home with her rather than riding my bike to someone's party
44 miles away. And if I did go out on New Year's, I would have taken the car. I don't know the particulars, it's not a criticism, it's what I would have done.
8.) Alan said I could kick his ass, so there it is. Moedad also called him a bonehead. And at least ER seemed to initially agree with me, but I have to disagree with him - AC didn't post this to advise riders to check the weather before they go out, it came off more as a matter of bravado rather than one of caution. If he had said that in his posts, I wouldn't be so "critical", and would have accepted that, that at least he would be a little more careful next time. I really don't want to hear, like I said before, that anyone gets hurt, especially because of their own stupidity when they really know better. We all make mistakes, we all do stupid things now and again, but let's not get hurt in the process.
9.) I can take the flak too, just wanted to get my message across, my thoughts, my opinion. Agree or not, that's your opinion and you are entitled to it.

[alanmcorcoran]

You go Dupo!

I have a piece of clothing I bought many years ago that I've ben meaning to take a picture of to post, but havent been able to organize my camera and the item. It's a very simple - a rectangular piece of (probably) a synthetic stretch wool sewn into a tube. Lain flat, it's approximately 6"x12". It's very versatile for keeping one's head warm in cold windy conditions (for me, hurtling down Mt. Holy Crap when it's 10 degrees.) If it's still in 30 deg. land, I wear it bunched up around my neck - does a good job of being a scarf without the strangulation possibilities. If it gets colder, I can pull it up so one end frames my face and the other seals my neck to a fleece or jacket. Keeps the head warm, the ears warm and is thin enough so I can wear my helmet over it. (Yeah, wear a helmet skiing too.) Add goggles, my head is usually warm right down to about 10. At 10 an below, I add a special black velcro version of the "stickup" bandanna that has holes in it for breathing. Below ten, they get kind of nasty, with the condensation freezing up.

Enjoy the ride!

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by mrlmd1

I'm not trying to come off nasty, if that's how it came off to you, then I'm sorry.

Good post.

I have but one question: Have you ever been caught (many) miles from home and the weather turned to something that you would NOT have ridden in if you were home.........but you NEEDED to get back home ( or thought you did ) and you braved it anyway ??

If not, I think you need to leave a little (more) room to consider that he did the right thing in the circumstances.

I've been there a couple of times in slightly different (but similar) circumstances and just the decision about what to do tears at you menatally before, during and after the event, regardless of what you decide to do. Then there is the unpleasant trip (if you choose that option) which tears at you physically and mentally.

I am biased. The worst day in my whole life was a 100 mile ride in a cold rain with no rain gear.
It took me about 4 hours. A couple of times, I thought a crash and a ride in a warm ambulance would have been better. Had anyone chewed my ass out immediately after that, THEY would have needed a surgeron because I would have tried to kill them.

So, that's where I'm coming from. I did learn a lot that day though.......about riding in the rain, about paying closer attention to the weather and about being better prepared. Some lessons just have to "soak in" the hard way, I guess.