Insane, growing, electrical problem

[OldNTired]

Originally Posted by OldNTired

Hello, all. This is my first post, so if I get something wrong please let me know.
I have a 2006 GZ250. At the end of last year it 'looked' like I had a battery problem. Since it was the end of the riding season I didn't get serious about it, all I did was test the battery, and test to see if it was charging. After 1/2 hour of riding it measured 11.75 volts at rest. BUT, when I tested it while the engine was running, the voltage jumped all over the place! The highest 'charging' voltage was about 11 volts, the lowest was about 6.5. The worst part was that I got the lowest voltage at higher RPM's. It finally warmed up enough today to try to check it out. I thought at first that it must be the rectifier. I can not get consistent readings on the rectifier tests using a diode tester. I tried two different meters! Checked out the stator, etc, it looks fine from what I can see (checked OHMS).
No, there were no loose, corroded, burnt, or pinched wires, anywhere that I looked.
But, here is the worst part! I figured I'd put it all back together to make sure nothing got damaged from sitting around. Then, just for laughs I thought I'd test the charge while it was running, just to make sure. But, I got nothing when I turned the key: no lights, no horn, no T signals, no starter, not even a neutral light, nothing!
From reading every post I could find having anything to do with the rectifier, I did see that some folks have had problems with the wiring inside the headlight bucket. I will check that out soon. But, would anything in there cause the erratic charging?
I am at a loss here, any help will be welcome. And thanks in advance. I would add a 'confused' smiley here, but can't figure out how to do it!

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Just an update here. I had time to spend a few hours on it today.
First, I recked everything that I had already tried. Battery had been on the tender, and measured 12.9V. Nothing had changed (big surprise), and I did not find any problems.
Then I dug into the headlight bucket. I was really hoping that something would show itself, but I found nothing wrong. No loose or unconnected wires, no burned/shorted wires, no corrosion. I double-checked every wire to see if insulation had worn off somewhere, but no luck. For lack of any better ideas, I started checking every ground that I could reach - all were good.
Then, not sure why, I tried to check voltage to the fuse box. Negative lead of meter to negative of battery, positive to fuse socket. NO voltage. I don't know about the circuits enough to know if that is expected or not. Can any let me know? Thanks. I am not the best at reading schematics these days.
About then the thought entered my mind that the easiest fix might be the firm and repetitive application of a sledge hammer. I decided it would be better to take a break and have some dinner. I have no idea what to do next.

[alantf]

It is just possible that the problem is on the return (ground) path, so my next step would be to disconnect the battery, then use the ohm scale of your meter to see if there is an open circuit between the cable lug that goes to the battery +ve & the fuse terminal. :2tup:

[Road_Clam]

Originally Posted by OldNTired

\


Just an update here. I had time to spend a few hours on it today.
First, I recked everything that I had already tried. Battery had been on the tender, and measured 12.9V. Nothing had changed (big surprise), and I did not find any problems.
Then I dug into the headlight bucket. I was really hoping that something would show itself, but I found nothing wrong. No loose or unconnected wires, no burned/shorted wires, no corrosion. I double-checked every wire to see if insulation had worn off somewhere, but no luck. For lack of any better ideas, I started checking every ground that I could reach - all were good.
Then, not sure why, I tried to check voltage to the fuse box. Negative lead of meter to negative of battery, positive to fuse socket. NO voltage. I don't know about the circuits enough to know if that is expected or not. Can any let me know? Thanks. I am not the best at reading schematics these days.
About then the thought entered my mind that the easiest fix might be the firm and repetitive application of a sledge hammer. I decided it would be better to take a break and have some dinner. I have no idea what to do next.

Looks like the GZ's use a main system fuse that recieves 12v directly from the battery located in the starter relay. This main fuse feeds the ignition switch, which when turned on then should feed the fuse box. I "think" the ignition needs to be "on" for voltage to be present at the fuse box.

The starter relay will have 3 small wires (Y/B , B/W, R) a large black wire (that feeds the starter), and one large red (+ from battery). Find that starter relay fuse and check for voltage in and out.

[alantf]

Yes, I hadn't checked the wiring diagram before, but checking it now, I see that there is a 20A fuse between the battery & ignition switch, then a fuse between the ignition switch & side stand relay. Power then goes via the other safety switches to the starter relay.

[OldNTired]

Originally Posted by alantf

It is just possible that the problem is on the return (ground) path, so my next step would be to disconnect the battery, then use the ohm scale of your meter to see if there is an open circuit between the cable lug that goes to the battery +ve & the fuse terminal. :2tup:

Good thought, but I did that yesterday. Thanks.

[OldNTired]

Originally Posted by Road_Clam

Looks like the GZ's use a main system fuse that recieves 12v directly from the battery located in the starter relay. This main fuse feeds the ignition switch, which when turned on then should feed the fuse box. I "think" the ignition needs to be "on" for voltage to be present at the fuse box.

The starter relay will have 3 small wires (Y/B , B/W, R) a large black wire (that feeds the starter), and one large red (+ from battery). Find that starter relay fuse and check for voltage in and out.

And you, my friend, win the prize! I took the cover off of the solenoid (you made it easy to find), and there were TWO 20 Amp fuses! One was fine, the other was blown. Replaced the blown one, and that took care of the power problem.
Then, I started the engine. Just for laughs I checked the R/R output: at idle it put out as high as 12.0V, at 3000RPM it only put out 9. Next I checked the stator output; 65+VAC! Then, I took the battery to the local Advance store and had it checked: it was declred to be fine - not bad for a 6 yr old battery.
So, all considered, it seems that the R/R is bad. Must be, everything else is good!


And now I'd like to thank you all, you guys have been fantastic and a lot of help to someone who is truly old and tired. And to be honest, I am not 'west of hell', I am west of Pgh., Pa. Halfway between Pgh. and Weirton, W.Va. If any of you ever pass this way, let me know and the beer is on me. Thanks again. posting.php?mode=quote&f=7&p=61399#

[OldNTired]

Originally Posted by alantf

Yes, I hadn't checked the wiring diagram before, but checking it now, I see that there is a 20A fuse between the battery & ignition switch, then a fuse between the ignition switch & side stand relay. Power then goes via the other safety switches to the starter relay.

Yep, two of you agree, and you are both right. Thanks, that solved the problem with 'no power'!

[Road_Clam]

Originally Posted by OldNTired

And you, my friend, win the prize! I took the cover off of the solenoid (you made it easy to find), and there were TWO 20 Amp fuses! One was fine, the other was blown. Replaced the blown one, and that took care of the power problem.
Then, I started the engine. Just for laughs I checked the R/R output: at idle it put out as high as 12.0V, at 3000RPM it only put out 9. Next I checked the stator output; 65+VAC! Then, I took the battery to the local Advance store and had it checked: it was declred to be fine - not bad for a 6 yr old battery.
So, all considered, it seems that the R/R is bad. Must be, everything else is good!


And now I'd like to thank you all, you guys have been fantastic and a lot of help to someone who is truly old and tired. And to be honest, I am not 'west of hell', I am west of Pgh., Pa. Halfway between Pgh. and Weirton, W.Va. If any of you ever pass this way, let me know and the beer is on me. Thanks again. posting.php?mode=quote&f=7&p=61399#

Glad to help, and you saved yourself a few bucks, and got your feet wet with m/c electrical diagnostic skill as well ! Good job.

[OldNTired]

Originally Posted by Road_Clam

Glad to help, and you saved yourself a few bucks, and got your feet wet with m/c electrical diagnostic skill as well ! Good job.

None the less, I couldn't have done it without the help from this forum. I've never belonged to one before, but I'm glad I joined this one. I'll be contributing as much as I can in the future. I really do know a few things, but this one had me stumped. See ya all down the road.

[mrlmd1]

Have you taken any time investigating why that fuse blew in the first place? No abraded wires/intermittent short anywhere in the wiring? Or are you just going to carry around a supply of extra 20 amp fuses? You may have discovered why the bike had no power but you have not solved your problem.