Some things I have noticed while riding.

dentheman · 04-08-2012, 11:33 AM

I've recently been taking some fairly long rides to get to the twisties and canyons located some distance from my home. This includes some long stretches of highway as well as the twisties, and has taught me a few interesting things about my bike (and me).

Riding at 65 mph gets me roughly 50 mpg, but increasing speed to 70 mph or fighting winds significantly lowers the mpg.

When taking a curve too wide (too fast) my natural impulse is to cut the throttle, this corrects the problem. If taking a curve too close to the inside, the impulse is to give it some throttle, which corrects it. My point is that it happens instinctively, without having to think about it.

When riding at high speed with a crosswind, the handlebar will give a slight 'jiggle'. At first I thought this was due to road conditions, but then I realized it is the bike correcting itself to stay in a straight line in spite of crosswinds. If the wind is blowing from the right, it tends to move the bike slightly to the left, which causes the steering to go slightly to the right and then straighten itself, causing the jiggle. For all practical purposes the bike continues to go straight and will not be blown around in the lane.

My old school rear drum brake has more stopping power than the front disc brake. Of course I do use both brakes when stopping.

I just thought I would throw this in for other beginners who might not completely trust their bike to take care of them.

alantf · 04-08-2012, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dentheman

My old school rear drum brake has more stopping power than the front disc brake.

Mmmmm........Seems like there's a problem with the front brake.It should be MUCH more efficient than the rear, & should give you around 70% of your stopping power.

mrlmd1 · 04-08-2012, 02:49 PM

You need to read Proficient Motorcycling, and More Proficient Motorcycling, by David Hough. And maybe also Total Control by Lee Parks, and A Twist of the Wrist by Keith Code (both about higher performance street and some track riding).
What you are doing in your turns where you go too wide, and with your brakes is wrong, and you do not want to get into a high side crash.

If you are too wide on the turn, it is because you entered it too soon, an early apex. You are better off with a delayed apex.
If you are going too fast into the turn, it is because you didn't slow down enough before you entered the turn.
If you cut the throttle to slow down and try and negotiate the turn, you are shifting the bike's weight to the front wheel, taking weight off the back wheel, and risk the back wheel losing traction and sliding out. This usually results in a high side crash when the rear wheel grabs the road again..
If you hit the front brake a little too hard going around the turn you risk a low side crash.
The only way to make sure you stay upright is it steer the bike straight and brake in a straight line, but that may take you into the other opposite lane or off the road.
You may be surprised, but you have a better chance of surviving a hot turn doing just the opposite of what you are doing. You actually should lean the bike over more and give it a little throttle to gain more traction and get around the turn - the opposite of what you are doing.

You should be doing most of your braking with the front brake, and if that is not providing most of your stopping power, it needs to be fixed or you will be seriously hurt.
Generally - The front brake is for seriously slowing or stopping the bike, the rear brake is for low speed maneuvers like slowly going around a tight turn, helps to keep the bike upright. Both should be used in a panic stop, front first, then rear. If the front tire skids, let up on that brake, then reapply in a progressive fashion, don't clamp on it all at once. If the rear wheel skids, stay or stand on that brake until the bike comes to a stop or you are going in an exactly straight line at a slow enough speed so you don't high side when the wheel regains traction.

Most times the bike will take care of you, like you said, but you have to tell it the right instructions in order for it to do that. I'm glad to see that so far your bike has done that regardless of what you tell it, but study and read some more instead of giving bad advice about what you do. I don't want you or anybody else on here to get hurt, so take my comments as constructive criticism and not as a negative attack..

Water Warrior 2 · 04-08-2012, 04:04 PM

Well said Doc. :2tup: :2tup:

Water Warrior 2 · 04-08-2012, 04:26 PM

When you find yourself going too hot into a curve it will help if you lean your body into the curve. Shifting your weight will make quite a difference. This of course takes a bit of practice so you know how far to lean for any given speed or curve. Gently lean your weight and feel the difference. The bike will respond to the shift in weight and put a grin on your face. You don't need to hang off the side like a race track professional to accomplish this. Just try to kiss the inside mirror and feel the results. If the bike turns in too fast then just add some throttle.

If the rear brake is more effective than the front there is something wrong. Either with the brake or your fear of going over the bars. It is highly unlikely you will go over the bars. Practice braking hard. Grip the tank with your legs and brake hard. Repeat, repeat and repeat until it feels normal and easy to do. Develop some muscle memory. Increase your speeds and repeat. Later you can practice down shifting with hard braking to match bike speed and the proper gear as you slow. Always try to be in the proper gear at any given speed, it is the safer way to ride.

dentheman · 04-08-2012, 04:54 PM

I don't think there is anything wrong with the front brake, but reviews I have read make mention of the "weak" or "wooden" front brake in some derogatory manner, and I agree. Also the 70% braking by the front brake is not necessarily true with some cruisers that have the front wheel sticking out and the rider sitting low and toward the rear of the bike, like the Shadow (or so I have read). What I have noticed is I just have to use light foot pressure on the rear brake, but much more hand pressure on the front brake to get what feels like even braking.

As far as the turns, I know what I am supposed to do, but putting it into practice will require more riding on my part. It doesn't happen much, but I find unknown curves hidden by hills sometimes require correction while in the turn.

I have read Hough's Proficient Motorcycling. I probably need to read up again on curves, and practice them specifically. I am still learning, and have only found the twisties four days ago, so they are new to me.

I am chalking this up to being new to riding and posted it under Beginners for that reason. Just things that I have noticed as I ride.

Also, when I went through the course, the instructors emphasized always using both brakes, I don't believe they ever mentioned just using one brake.

alantf · 04-08-2012, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dentheman

but much more hand pressure on the front brake to get what feels like even braking.

Have you had the calipers apart to check that the pads still have plenty of life in them, and they're moving freely on their guide pins. It just seems that you may have some slight problem. You shouldn't have to use excessive force on the lever.

blaine · 04-08-2012, 05:15 PM

I agree that you may have a problem with your front brake.You should be able to get considerable braking force with just a little pressure on the brake lever.It sounds like the caliber may not be moving,only giving you pressure on one side of the rotor.

:cool:

dentheman · 04-08-2012, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blaine

I agree that you may have a problem with your front brake.You should be able to get considerable braking force with just a little pressure on the brake lever.It sounds like the caliber may not be moving,only giving you pressure on one side of the rotor.

:cool:

I don't understand what you are telling me. The brake has two pistons, both for the outer pad, with the inner pad being static (no pistons, it doesn't move) as far as I can tell from the repair manual. So pressure would only be 'directly' applied to one side of the rotor by the pistons on that side, right? Or does the entire brake assembly (caliper?)move when pressure is applied to one side to place equal pressure on both sides of the rotor?

OK, I just went out and pushed the brake assembly side to side and there is slight movement, but when holding the brake lever there is no movement, so I answered my question. The entire caliper assembly should move.

In a few days I will take her by the dealer and see what they think.

mrlmd1 · 04-08-2012, 06:22 PM

One last tip that can't be emphasized enough, and it's very simple and can be disastrous if ignored. No matter where you ride, but especially in turns and curves, LOOK WHERE YOU WANT TO GO. If you think you are going wide on the turn and you look that way, if you target fixate on something across the other side of the road, or at an oncoming car, that's where you will wind up. Keep your head level, turn your head and look through the turn to where you want to go. Your gaze and line of sight should be the track that the bike will follow. There's an old saying, look down, go down. Just keep looking through the turn and you will make it.

And the only type of bike where the front brake may not be the most effective or important in stopping the bike and providing most of the stopping power may be in a custom chopper with a very exaggerated front fork length - that general adage applies to practically every bike, every book you read, every training program. If your front brake doesn't stop the bike dead real quick with a moderately tight squeeze on the handle, you need to get it checked. Soon. You should not be able to even move the bike with a tiny weak application of the front brake.

04-08-2012, 11:33 AM	#1
dentheman Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 629	Some things I have noticed while riding. I've recently been taking some fairly long rides to get to the twisties and canyons located some distance from my home. This includes some long stretches of highway as well as the twisties, and has taught me a few interesting things about my bike (and me). Riding at 65 mph gets me roughly 50 mpg, but increasing speed to 70 mph or fighting winds significantly lowers the mpg. When taking a curve too wide (too fast) my natural impulse is to cut the throttle, this corrects the problem. If taking a curve too close to the inside, the impulse is to give it some throttle, which corrects it. My point is that it happens instinctively, without having to think about it. When riding at high speed with a crosswind, the handlebar will give a slight 'jiggle'. At first I thought this was due to road conditions, but then I realized it is the bike correcting itself to stay in a straight line in spite of crosswinds. If the wind is blowing from the right, it tends to move the bike slightly to the left, which causes the steering to go slightly to the right and then straighten itself, causing the jiggle. For all practical purposes the bike continues to go straight and will not be blown around in the lane. My old school rear drum brake has more stopping power than the front disc brake. Of course I do use both brakes when stopping. I just thought I would throw this in for other beginners who might not completely trust their bike to take care of them. __________________ 2007 Shadow Spirit 750 Login or Register to Remove Ads
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04-08-2012, 02:49 PM	#3
mrlmd1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Crawfordville, Florida Posts: 2,853	Re: Some things I have noticed while riding. You need to read Proficient Motorcycling, and More Proficient Motorcycling, by David Hough. And maybe also Total Control by Lee Parks, and A Twist of the Wrist by Keith Code (both about higher performance street and some track riding). What you are doing in your turns where you go too wide, and with your brakes is wrong, and you do not want to get into a high side crash. If you are too wide on the turn, it is because you entered it too soon, an early apex. You are better off with a delayed apex. If you are going too fast into the turn, it is because you didn't slow down enough before you entered the turn. If you cut the throttle to slow down and try and negotiate the turn, you are shifting the bike's weight to the front wheel, taking weight off the back wheel, and risk the back wheel losing traction and sliding out. This usually results in a high side crash when the rear wheel grabs the road again.. If you hit the front brake a little too hard going around the turn you risk a low side crash. The only way to make sure you stay upright is it steer the bike straight and brake in a straight line, but that may take you into the other opposite lane or off the road. You may be surprised, but you have a better chance of surviving a hot turn doing just the opposite of what you are doing. You actually should lean the bike over more and give it a little throttle to gain more traction and get around the turn - the opposite of what you are doing. You should be doing most of your braking with the front brake, and if that is not providing most of your stopping power, it needs to be fixed or you will be seriously hurt. Generally - The front brake is for seriously slowing or stopping the bike, the rear brake is for low speed maneuvers like slowly going around a tight turn, helps to keep the bike upright. Both should be used in a panic stop, front first, then rear. If the front tire skids, let up on that brake, then reapply in a progressive fashion, don't clamp on it all at once. If the rear wheel skids, stay or stand on that brake until the bike comes to a stop or you are going in an exactly straight line at a slow enough speed so you don't high side when the wheel regains traction. Most times the bike will take care of you, like you said, but you have to tell it the right instructions in order for it to do that. I'm glad to see that so far your bike has done that regardless of what you tell it, but study and read some more instead of giving bad advice about what you do. I don't want you or anybody else on here to get hurt, so take my comments as constructive criticism and not as a negative attack.. Login or Register to Remove Ads
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04-08-2012, 04:04 PM	#4
Water Warrior 2 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Squamish B.C Canada Posts: 11,409	Re: Some things I have noticed while riding. Well said Doc. :2tup: :2tup:
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04-08-2012, 04:26 PM	#5
Water Warrior 2 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Squamish B.C Canada Posts: 11,409	Re: Some things I have noticed while riding. When you find yourself going too hot into a curve it will help if you lean your body into the curve. Shifting your weight will make quite a difference. This of course takes a bit of practice so you know how far to lean for any given speed or curve. Gently lean your weight and feel the difference. The bike will respond to the shift in weight and put a grin on your face. You don't need to hang off the side like a race track professional to accomplish this. Just try to kiss the inside mirror and feel the results. If the bike turns in too fast then just add some throttle. If the rear brake is more effective than the front there is something wrong. Either with the brake or your fear of going over the bars. It is highly unlikely you will go over the bars. Practice braking hard. Grip the tank with your legs and brake hard. Repeat, repeat and repeat until it feels normal and easy to do. Develop some muscle memory. Increase your speeds and repeat. Later you can practice down shifting with hard braking to match bike speed and the proper gear as you slow. Always try to be in the proper gear at any given speed, it is the safer way to ride. Login or Register to Remove Ads
	0

04-08-2012, 04:54 PM	#6
dentheman Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 629	Re: Some things I have noticed while riding. I don't think there is anything wrong with the front brake, but reviews I have read make mention of the "weak" or "wooden" front brake in some derogatory manner, and I agree. Also the 70% braking by the front brake is not necessarily true with some cruisers that have the front wheel sticking out and the rider sitting low and toward the rear of the bike, like the Shadow (or so I have read). What I have noticed is I just have to use light foot pressure on the rear brake, but much more hand pressure on the front brake to get what feels like even braking. As far as the turns, I know what I am supposed to do, but putting it into practice will require more riding on my part. It doesn't happen much, but I find unknown curves hidden by hills sometimes require correction while in the turn. I have read Hough's Proficient Motorcycling. I probably need to read up again on curves, and practice them specifically. I am still learning, and have only found the twisties four days ago, so they are new to me. I am chalking this up to being new to riding and posted it under Beginners for that reason. Just things that I have noticed as I ride. Also, when I went through the course, the instructors emphasized always using both brakes, I don't believe they ever mentioned just using one brake. __________________ 2007 Shadow Spirit 750
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04-08-2012, 05:15 PM	#8
blaine Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: P.E.I. Canada Posts: 3,784	Re: Some things I have noticed while riding. I agree that you may have a problem with your front brake.You should be able to get considerable braking force with just a little pressure on the brake lever.It sounds like the caliber may not be moving,only giving you pressure on one side of the rotor. :cool: __________________ If at first you do succeed, try not to look surprised.
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04-08-2012, 06:22 PM	#10
mrlmd1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Crawfordville, Florida Posts: 2,853	Re: Some things I have noticed while riding. One last tip that can't be emphasized enough, and it's very simple and can be disastrous if ignored. No matter where you ride, but especially in turns and curves, LOOK WHERE YOU WANT TO GO. If you think you are going wide on the turn and you look that way, if you target fixate on something across the other side of the road, or at an oncoming car, that's where you will wind up. Keep your head level, turn your head and look through the turn to where you want to go. Your gaze and line of sight should be the track that the bike will follow. There's an old saying, look down, go down. Just keep looking through the turn and you will make it. And the only type of bike where the front brake may not be the most effective or important in stopping the bike and providing most of the stopping power may be in a custom chopper with a very exaggerated front fork length - that general adage applies to practically every bike, every book you read, every training program. If your front brake doesn't stop the bike dead real quick with a moderately tight squeeze on the handle, you need to get it checked. Soon. You should not be able to even move the bike with a tiny weak application of the front brake.
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