Pushing on the pegs to help you lean

[roncg41677]

Originally Posted by Moedad

I turn.

U turn?

[Magnar Infectus]

Originally Posted by roncg41677

U turn?

We all turn?

[Jer]

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !

[5th_bike]

There are many ways to go through a curve in the road. You can lean with the bike; or just your upper body can lean over, and you keep the bike straight up; or you can stay upright and have just the bike lean; and everything in between, whatever makes you go through the curve.

One thing I read about before starting to ride, and specifically DON'T do now I'm on the road, is "doing the curve with the apex" i.e. to make a curve to the left: start at the right side of your lane, halfway the curve you're at the left side of the lane (the 'apex'), and coming out of the curve you're at the right side of the lane again.
This is only good for race tracks, and not for real roads. I don't want to twice cross the oil drip zone in the middle of the lane when leaning through a curve, nor do I want to be in the decapitation zone at the apex, therefore I make 'apexless curves' in the right track of the lane. For right turns too, because many a time when going through a curve to the right, I meet idiots in cages who think that they own the road and they can move their car over the double yellow line like, two feet, no problem.

Oops, going off-topic, I never really thought about putting most of the weight on one peg consciously, will try. Thank you.

[Jer]

Oh man do I agree with that.

You read about how you shoud be in the tire trenches for best traction and cleanliness of road.

Then later you read something telling you to cross the ENTIRE width of the lane, in a turn no less, then doing it again coming out of the turn.

WTF????

No thanks.

[mrlmd1]

All this obviously depends on the radius of the turn and the speed you are taking it as well as the visibility around the turn. Also dirt, gravel, any road hazards that may pop up. The idea of turning through the apex is to steer the staightest line around the curve.

[alanmcorcoran]

Originally Posted by 5th_bike

For right turns too, because many a time when going through a curve to the right, I meet idiots in cages who think that they own the road and they can move their car over the double yellow line like, two feet, no problem.

Most experts on the topic recommend a slightly delayed apex which actually helps a bit to alleviate this problem. If you follow the "outside, inside, outside" you'll at least be starting on the outside which is where the cars are going to be coming over the line (to your inside.) Also, by starting on the outside you increae your visibility of the turn.

Finally, if you are at speed, I think the bike is not going to turn if it is straight up. You can turn it with the handlebars at low speed, but that doesn't work onve there are centrifugal forces. Whether it's leaned by countersteering, "pressing" on the handlebars, "pressing" on the pegs, etc. all of these result in the bike leaning. The more you can lean it without it slipping out or falling over, the tighter your turn. Given that the tires on the GZ are on the skinny side, I wouldn't get crazy trying to emulate racers. I am a pretty conservative rider and I've already experience the front starting to slide out.

As a beginner myself, I have two recommendations: 1) Watch your speed. 2) If you ignore #1 and get into a curve a little hotter than you would like, try to train your brain to look ahead and lean the bike more, rather than looking down, giving up and heading off the road. You can practice this by using your imagination. Try to develop an "Oh boy I gotta lean more and look ahead" instinct just like the "Oh boy, I gotta really squeeze and pedal" instinct for a quick/panic stop. Most of the time, the curve is well within the slip range of the bike, but the panic reaction is to look down, keep the bike upright (and head off the road.)

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by roncg41677

I've found on gentler curves trying to push the handlebars right or left to countersteer almost isn't worth the effort. Maybe I'm doing it a little, but it really feels more natural to just lean the bike a bit. That may just be me.

No, it's not just you!

To revise and extend my previous remarks:
What really causes the bike to turn is LEAN.
Two basic things cause the bike to lean: Weight transfer to the inside and/or countersteering.

On the GZ, I find (compared to ALL the other bikes I have ridden) that countersteering makes the bike turn quickly and a LOT. Weight transfer, OTOH, can be used for smaller and smoother turns.

For the first few hundred miles on the GZ, I found that I was over-steering in most situations; that is, turning too much. I was able to correct that by using the bars LESS and subtle weight shifts MORE.

If you have never ridden a bike that really REALLY wants to keep going in a straight line, you won't fully appreciate the difference.

[mr. softie]

If I am in a high speed turn and the bike is really leaned over, (so much so that my foot/peg is touching the road), and I am in danger of going wide, I just lean my upper body to the inside. This tightens my radius as well as standing the bike up a little. I also weight the outside peg a bit in that situation.

At very slow speeds weighting the outside peg in a turn also helps, as does using the rear brake and throttle together to help stabilize the bike. Motorcycling is a really a whole body activity.

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by mr. softie

If I am in a high speed turn and the bike is really leaned over, (so much so that my foot/peg is touching the road), and I am in danger of going wide, I just lean my upper body to the inside. This tightens my radius as well as standing the bike up a little. I also weight the outside peg a bit in that situation.

Yes but that begs the question: Why did you end up that way in the first place ??

The LAST thing that should lean at an extreme angle is the bike. The objective is to keep the bike as upright as possible at all times. That means leaning your upper body first instead of last.

I had a problem with that for maybe 15 years of my riding life and it is a hard habit to break. I still find myself with body upright and bike leaned sometimes.

(With a top speed of ~70 mph, it really isn't THAT much of a problem though!) :biggrin: