add another bike to GZ

[one]

I have been riding and love the way the GZ rides. It is awesome for local roads and great to maneuver do to size and weight. price point is great and it's the kind of bike i would love to keep forever.

Being said, i was looking into another bike with similar features (ride stance, comfort) but with a bit more power. The 250 or (249) is great for local roads but I am a bit nervous to ride on any highway near me as cars travel at 70+. Not that I am looking to break the speedlimt, I am wanting a bike that i can take on a longer trip (from state to state on the interestate). there is no question the GZ is limited on it's top speed - then adding wind, hills, saddle bags, etc. it's hard to maintain highway speeds in excessive of 60 to 65. I am 5'-10" and 175. Bike is tuned perfectly but I am concerned about stressing the motor at higher RPM's for a duration.

Therefore, I was wondering what other people have moved to from the GZ. I sat on other bikes - suzuki's, honda's, yamaha, triump, HD's. For me cost is an issue and I was curious to hear what other people had to say about jumping up.

Do not get me wrong, i do not want to get rid of this bike - i changed the front brakes and fluid with no issues and would like to continue to work on it when needed and go for the riding i have been doing, it's the longer rides i am concerned with.

any suggestions?

[Badbob]

I've been researching other bikes since before I got my GZ250. If you can answer a few questions I might be able to at least point you in the right direction.

Do you want to stay with a 250cc bike?

Do you want to stay with the cruiser style bike?

Do you ride long distances?

Do you carry cargo as in camping equipment?

Are after market third party accessories important to you?

Is performance and handling important?

[one]

My answers in blue.

Do you want to stay with a 250cc bike?
no, i was thinking larger for the performance, long ride ability with a passenger, weight.

Do you want to stay with the cruiser style bike?
yes

Do you ride long distances?
long? up to 125 miles + a day

Do you carry cargo as in camping equipment?
cargo is important. not so much getting to the location but more so on the ride home. storage is always nice, i found it difficult to run to a store and take something home without it being held on me personally or under the seat.

Are after market third party accessories important to you?
windshield, saddle bags moreso then luggage to keep weight lower, i am in the NE so heated handle grips and seat is always a plus.

Is performance and handling important?
yes

[Dupo]

Well, i no longer own a GZ (kinda started this when i did, then moved up lol).

I spent about 3 weeks trying to decide on what to get. I was originally going to stay with suzuki until i sat on an Intruder (yuck). They were very 'tight' fitting, although they dont look it looking at one. I browsed pictures of many many bikes on ebay, google etc. I compared prices, price ranges, reviews... you name it i went through it. I then headed on over to the dealer and sat on various makes and models. I FINALLY decided on a Honda Shadow, forget if it was an ace or comparable, it felt nice and fit me very well. What i ended up getting was a Honda Shadow Spirit 750. (basically the same bike, smaller fenders). It wasnt what i decided on exactly, but i got a really good deal on ebay. Paid blue book for it but it also had almost 2 grand in work done to it (cobra pipes, cobra jet kit, mustang seat, hypercharger, new paint). I just couldnt pass that up. The spirit still fits me as good as what i sat on at the dealer and is plenty of power for doing 100 mile runs just riding around on back roads and on the highway. The stock seat sucks (i got a stock one just to 'have' one). I took it off after 15 minutes of riding and put the mustang touring seat back on. All in all, the 750cc is more than enough power for what you want to do.

What you NEED to do is go to the dealer and talk to them. Tell them you want to buy a 'new' bike (just lie to them lol, they bend over backwards to help you out). Sit on all the bikes that interest you. Sit as long as you can on each one. Stand it up to feel the weight and balance. Sit on it and put your feet up on the pegs. Get a good feel for each bike. You should be able to narrow it down to 2 or 3 ... maybe even 1. I am sure you are looking to buy used, trust me, thats the best thing to do until say your NEXT bike. So now that you have narrowed it down..... go find yourself a really good deal on a used one. Theres plenty on ebay with saddlebags, windshields already installed. You can find some good deals on there.. as well as some overpriced ones too lol. So do your homework on bluebook values!

Most dealers will tell you, as soon as most of their customers get their bikes home, they buy a mustang seat for it for long rides. They are not lying to you! If you plan on getting one, plan on getting an aftermarket seat! Unless you buy a VStar or something comparible with those comfy pillow seats This is where 'used' can save you some money. Alot of used bikes come with aftermarket seats

As for windshield, you will be looking at $160 and up for these type of cruisers. Saddlebags you will want to spend a little more and get something name brand and heavy weight leather, trust me. Heated grips, you can find on ebay for $50 shipped.

Performance and handling. Most all these bikes handle about the same (minus the minibike handling of the GZ). My spirit handles the road great. Its sure no sportbike but i can rip throught twisties very well. They take bumps MUCH better than the GZ does.

I will say though, whatever you do decide... it will feel like a monster when you first straddle it. The ride home you will shit a brick at the power increase, ride comfort, handling, smoothness of shifting etc ... You will also have a smile on your face a mile wide and think to yourself the entire ride home "why the hell didnt i do this sooner". (this is all from personal experience too lol).

If you are very confident on the GZ, and i mean to the point that you can whip that thing around like a minibike when you were 14.... You will have NO problem going to a 750cc and could possible even up it to an 1100 if you REALLY wanted to. The weight difference is like 20 lbs or so depending what model and really, the only diff is torque. 1100 will get you to 60 faster than a 750 would. After a few weeks on my spirit 750 i immedialty began to think i could have very easily went to an 1100 (which will be my next bike if and when i finally sell the spirit 750).

Good luck on this, i found looking for an upgrade from the GZ a real pain in the ass because of SO many choices. But if you follow what i have said (and any other forum you ask this question would tell you to do the same thing) you should have no problem finding yourself a good motorcycle that you are comfortable on.

Any other questions, fire away!

[Badbob]

Originally Posted by one

My answers in blue.

Do you want to stay with a 250cc bike?
no, i was thinking larger for the performance, long ride ability with a passenger, weight.

Do you want to stay with the cruiser style bike?
yes

Do you ride long distances?
long? up to 125 miles + a day

Do you carry cargo as in camping equipment?
cargo is important. not so much getting to the location but more so on the ride home. storage is always nice, i found it difficult to run to a store and take something home without it being held on me personally or under the seat.

Are after market third party accessories important to you?
windshield, saddle bags more so then luggage to keep weight lower, i am in the NE so heated handle grips and seat is always a plus.

Is performance and handling important?
yes

Just so you know where I'm coming from. I like cruisers. I think they look great. Some of them are down right beautiful to look at. When I got back into riding the Honda Shadow was the bike I thought I wanted. When you get right down to it I'm not against any style motorcycle and would probably own one of each if I had the money and a place to keep them. I have some where close to 20,000 miles of riding experience mostly on smaller bikes. About 14000 miles this year. If I had to classify my experience I would put myself just barely in the novice class. My point here is that I'm not an expert.

What kind of bikes do I own? Two GZ250s and a Yamaha XS11 Special. The Yamaha is an 1100cc shaft drive bike.

I have been researching motorcycles for almost a year now trying to figure out what exactly it is I want. When I say research I don't mean 30 minutes a per week but more like an hour or two a day either reading books or internet forums and FAQs. Note that I do not consider myself an expert so take this for what it is. The opinion of someone who is trying to make a the same sort of decision as you but maybe a little further down the path. In case your wondering, I'm not planning to get rid the GZ250 any time soon. The Yamaha is subject to get replaced at any time.

This is my take so far:

Cruisers are pretty but they are not the best riding bikes. In general seating position is very bad for long distance riding. At about 30 to 50 miles you will find many cruiser riders looking for a place to take a break. If your seat isn't right for you its going to hurt. There are exception to this of course. Some people have iron butts. If you are going to ride a cruiser factor in a custom seat as part of the cost of the bike. If you find the stock seat works for you then spent the money on gear or chrome.

Due to their low ground clearance Cruisers do not corner well due to their limited lean angle. Peg dragging is a pretty regular occurrence on my GZ250. On a good surface with good tires you can lean a bike to the point that the shiny parts start dragging the ground and throwing up sparks. Lots of cruisers slide out in tight curves because they get in to the turn a little to fast and can't lean the bike over far enough to make the turn. The point is that if you want to do things like ride the Dragons Tail a cruiser might not be what you want.

Cruisers excel at looking good and going fast in a straight line.

The cruiser you choose will depend more on personal taste than any thing else and although their are some that I like I would be afraid to recommend one. However, if you have a Hyosung dealer nearby I do recommend that you look at them. Lots of bang for your buck.

If you want to ride 1000 miles on the highway, ride up a mountain on a dirt road or rocky trail, camp for a day or two, and ride back. You want a dual sport. In my opinion the KLR650 is king in this area. If you think you might be interested in this type of riding check out the following links. The Adventure Rider link is worth looking at just for the pictures and ride reports that are posted there. The second link goes to my collection of KLR605 links.

http://www.advrider.com/
http://tinyurl.com/yj7823

For riding long distances standard, sport touring, and dual sport bikes are much better than cruisers. This is mainly due to their seating positions. However, they also have better handling and performance than cruisers. Some of the sport touring bikes come equipped from the factory with hard bags and trunks.

My motorcycle touring links: http://tinyurl.com/ykh8us

Dual sport bike excel at carrying cargo. I've seen many photos of KLR650s loaded to the gills with all sorts of stuff. People ride these on trips of thousands of miles across just about any anything you can imagine. The sport touring bikes do pretty well in this department as well. Lots of cruiser gear is just for show. I've seen cruiser saddle bags that were only rated for 4lbs this would not not carry my lightest jacket. Before you purchase any bike make sure you can get the gear you want for it at a price that you are willing to pay. In some cases the gear could wind up costing more than the bike.

Be sure the bike you choose will handle all the powered accessories you want to add. Some have very little over head in the electrical power department and few of them are upgradeable to get more power. For example, adding a light bar to a GZ250 can easily draw so much current that your battery will not charge. If you are so inclined you can modify accessories or even fabricate things to work on your bike like brackets and such. If you are not capable of doing this or do not want to it is important that you know what is available before you drop a few thousand dollars on your bike. Search Google for forums on the model of bike your considering. In many cases you will find this very help full.

I think support groups are a must. I would not buy a bike that did not have one. More members is better.

I don't think dealers are much help since their goals are much different than yours. They want as much profit as they can get while you want the ideal bike for you at price you are willing to pay. A good internet forum with lots of members can save you lots of pain and money. Of course you must always keep in mind that opinions are like Alpha Hotels. Everybody has one.

If performance and handling are at the top of your list then cruisers are not. In the twistys a 250c Ninja will eat cruisers for lunch. In the same cc range there would not be a contest anywhere. Like everything else in life its a trade off. You trade performance and handling for looking cool. Everything is a compromise.

I know it sounds like I'm trying to talk you out of buying a cruiser. I assure you this is not the case. What I'm saying here is that you should do your research and make an informed choice. If all you look at is cruisers then thats all your going to see and you may miss something important to you. If the only tool you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail.

I have come to the conclusion that I need (want) three types bikes:

A commuter to ride to work. It must be inexpensive, easy to maintain, reliable, maneuverable in traffic, get great gas mileage, and be able to carry considerable cargo. I don't want to need a gallon of milk and have to ride home, get the truck and go back to the store. A GZ250 and most any 250cc bike would do this for me. I don't require speeds in excess of 45 mph where I live. If I did need highway speeds could get a Nija 250 and it would work fine. I ride to work most every day.

A bike that will carry lots of cargo and is at home in the dirt. Thats why I am very interested in a dual sport KLR650. I ride my GZ250 in the dirt now. I like to explore and don't like to back track when the pavement ends. Riding a GZ250 down a rutted dirt road can be a hair raising experience. A KLR650 will go down any road and make a great commuter.

A road bike. Something that I would I could hang some luggage on and haul myself and the wife on a 500 mile trip.

So here is my short list:

Kawasaki KLR650 - It does everything except make a good bike for riding two up on a long road trip. The wife wants and has her own bike so if she can ride a KLR then we only need two of these and we are all set. It also has excellent support via several internet forums and how to sites. KLR650 riders are quite creative. It comes from the factory with a real luggage rack.

Honda CB750 Nighthawk - This would be hard to beat for a road bike. Low maintenance, high reliability, excellent performance, and some major support groups. There is a yahoo group that has more than 5000 members. Lots of people are riding Nighthawks. On the down side the rage is a bit on the short side as some places I want to ride it can be 200 miles to the next gas stop. I'm also not to sure about the oil cooling system although this would not be a deal breaker for me. They don't make these any more but you might still be able to find a new one.

Kawasaki Ninja 250cc - These have a lot going for them including some great forums in the internet. It would make a great commuter bike or sport tourer. This little bike will zip through traffic and have no trouble keeping up with interstate traffic. Top speed is around 100 mph. Good gas mileage although some people do better with the 500cc Ninja. It might be difficult to buy a used one that has not been abused. New Ninja 250s are cheap at around $3000. Maintenance is fairly easy and since these have been around for years there should not be any problem getting parts or service. Much like the KLR riders some of the Ninja riders are very creative and willing to share their experiences.

Kawasaki Concourse - Great road bike and sport touring bike. It can be bought pretty much ready to hit the road. I haven't finished my research on this one yet but so far I like everything I see. If you took a Ninja and reconfigured for sport touring it might look a lot like this.

I also like the Suzuki VStrom but I think they are to new and I'm not sure I like the idea of having a bike that I can't bump start.

Stay away from air cooled engines with more than one cylinder. My Yamaha XS11 is air cooled and if you get stuck in traffic over heating is a real possibility. This bike will boil the gas in the tank if you don't keep it cool. The KLR650 is a single cylinder and its water cooled. On my short list the Honda Nighthawk is the only bike that is not water cooled. Water cooled engines tend to run better and last longer.

Watch the weight. Imagine trying to push a 800 lb motorcycle backward and up hill. Imaging riding a heavy bike in to a dead end on a narrow dirt road to a dead end and you have to turn this sucker around jockeying it back and forth on loose dirt. You say your not going to get ride in the dirt. You might need to do something similar in a parking lot. A lighter bike can be balance on its kick stand and spun around. Try doing this with a very heavy bike.

Make sure the carrying capacity of the bike is adequate to your needs. How much weight can you actually carry on the bike keeping in mind that every accessory you want to add subtracts from this. On some bikes two people with all there gear will exceed the limit.

You might want to have tubeless tires and alloy wheels. Alloy wheels are low maintenance and tubeless tires are easier to make roadside repairs. Some think tubeless tires are safer.

I keep seeing people tell you to sit on the bike at a dealer. My take is that it really has limited usefulness. If the bike doesn't have a center stand you can't sit on it in the riding position. If it has a center stand the bike will be tilted forward so your still not really in the riding position although much closer to it than you would be with you feet on the floor. The only way you really know if its comfortable to ride is when your two hundred miles down the road. I'm not saying don't do it. See it for what it is not what you wish it was.

With very few exceptions I do not think that buying a new bike is a good way to go. That said, you really need to know something about how buy used bikes before you get one thats out of warranty.

If you get another bike and don't like it keep in mind that most people will go through several be fore they settle into something they really like. I think this is partially why you see so many bikes with low millage for sale.

OK, I've about run out of steam. Do your research. Ride what you like and ride safe.

[one]

this was educational for both the thought process and weblinks but what I like most (for comparision purposes) is a persons opinion. About their research. It is extermely helpful while looking at bikes to use someones own knowledge to help. I posted about changing front pads. I read the MOM but after asking on this forum, there was more I learned then just what the MOM said.

All bikes you mentioned were not american, any reason? I sat and road a standard bike, for some reason, I was not thrilled since I was somewhat pushed forward and used more arms (tir-cepts) which is a reason I like the cruiser much more. For me to pull over ever 35 to 50 miles is not the worst thing at this point, stretching is key to me. I find myself standing after 35 to 40 minutes or so of riding at traffic lights.

I would like to see how you and your GZ spark at turns. I know the foot pegs can be an issue. For me, mostly on left turns going from a flat surface up hill. Maybe you have engine guards...

I saw Victory and Harleys around and like the look, being that Harley starts at 883 - it could be a good starting point since it is basically around the 750 size.

Anyway, I very much so appreciate you post..

[Badbob]

Originally Posted by one

this was educational for both the thought process and weblinks but what I like most (for comparision purposes) is a persons opinion. About their research. It is extermely helpful while looking at bikes to use someones own knowledge to help. I posted about changing front pads. I read the MOM but after asking on this forum, there was more I learned then just what the MOM said.

All bikes you mentioned were not american, any reason? I sat and road a standard bike, for some reason, I was not thrilled since I was somewhat pushed forward and used more arms (tir-cepts) which is a reason I like the cruiser much more. For me to pull over ever 35 to 50 miles is not the worst thing at this point, stretching is key to me. I find myself standing after 35 to 40 minutes or so of riding at traffic lights.

I would like to see how you and your GZ spark at turns. I know the foot pegs can be an issue. For me, mostly on left turns going from a flat surface up hill. Maybe you have engine guards...

I saw Victory and Harleys around and like the look, being that Harley starts at 883 - it could be a good starting point since it is basically around the 750 size.

Anyway, I very much so appreciate you post..

If you look close you might find that even the "American" bikes are non-American. However, this had nothing to do with the selection process. I had a list of needs and wants and these just worked out to fit these needs. Price is an issue and since I may have to purchase two of some of them it is double important. If you look at their history all of these bikes have a traceable history that goes back 20 years or more. It's all tried and true technology that has been refined and tweaked and improved over the years. For example, Buells are very interesting but did not make the cut because they are expensive and have not been around long enough, There are Suzuki's I liked but they don't make them any more and the few newer ones I liked don't have any history.

Here is a good document about seating positions: http://www.sargentcycle.com/csroadcom.htm

Seating position is not really intuitive because what feels comfortable just sitting on a bike isn't really good for the long haul. Do an experiment the next time you ride. Lean forward slightly and see if you can ride longer before it becomes uncomfortable. I have some really long trips I want to take and having to stop every 35-50 miles would slow me down so much that some of them would not be doable.

Another advantage that the non cruiser bikes have that I didn't think to mention before is that your feet are under you so standing on the pegs without having to pull you self up with your arms allowing you to keep a light touch on the handle bars and uses proper counter steering techniques. You can also steer with your feet.

As far as leaning forward goes I really don't think this will be as much of a problem as you think. Unless you have a large windshield the wind will take some of the pressure off and its all adjustable. Different handlebars, risers and adjusting handlebar positions. If you go where there are lots of Ninjas to look at take note of all the different handlebars they have. They don't all have the same ones from the factory. Handlebars have a large affect on your seating position.

You don't want to see any one making sparks because the next think they do is hit the pavement. If you lean over far enough for this to happen you are levering the tire off the ground with the shiny parts of the bike. Chrome plated steel is slippery and the bike will slide right out from under you as soon as the tire looses traction. I'm not sure you can do this with a GZ250 because the pegs are so low to the ground you would probably hit your foot before you got metal but cruisers with low slung pipe will drag the on the pavement if you are pushing the envelope. The only time I ever made sparks with my GZ250 was when I got snagged by an edge trap along a gutter and instantly turned the bike into the curb. If you look at the bottom end of your pegs you will see a rubber tab that sticks out about a half inch. That s what touches first. I had my foot forcefully thrown into the saddle bag once because I was riding with my foot halfway off the peg and my fot hit the ground. Scared the hell out of me.

This is the basic list I'm using to eliminate bikes from my list:

1. Must have a long history.
2. Must have a good support group.
3. Must have high reliability. See item 1. US Marines use KLR650s for couriers.
4. Must be easy to maintain. See item 1.
5. Must be fairly low maintenance. See item one.
6. Must have a large cargo carrying capability for camping trips and grocery shopping.
7. Must have readily available parts and bolt on accessories available at somewhat reasonable prices.
8. Center stands are highly desirable. The facilitate maintenance and road side repairs as well as makes parking the bike in the garage take less room.
9. Must be able to ride on any road. For me this pushes the KLR650 to the top of the list.
10. Must be able to go at least 200 miles on a tank of gas preferable before hitting reserve. In some areas this can be very important.
11. Under nice to have would be comfortable riding for two. You can ride two on a KLR650 but I really don't think it would be very practical or comfortable so this is how the road bikes get into the mix.

Harley's have a long history and IMHO it ain't good. They are getting better, but they are definitely smooth pavement only. Did I mention horribly expensive.

BMW had some biles I liked but my wallet could not stand them. They are also a little to quirky for me. Parts are very expensive.

The KLR650 comes out on top any way I look at it and if it works good enough as a rood bike and a commuter I may end up with two of these in the garage and for get the rest. If I feel I want real road bike then the Kawasaki Concourse will probably win out. The Nighthawks are very appealing. Nighthawks almost put Harley Davidson out of business and if the Feds had not made it illegal for them to sell larger bikes for several years Harley Davidson might be history. How ever nice the older Nighthawks are they are old and maintaining one could turn into a hobby and the newer ones don't quite fit the mold for me. Plus they don't make them any more. They have stopped for short periods before so next year we could see a new version of the Nighthawk.

At some point I will probably have a Ninja 250 or 500 just because I want one. They completely fill the commuter roll and I think riding one would just be a lot of fun.

[Dupo]

Seems like you are going to head in the direction of cruiser with the reference of the 883. Keep in mind the pricing of Harley, also that the sportsters are top heavy and not very low to the ground. I am in no way knocking harley, i was even looking into a sportster (used) when i was bike shopping. I just found them too tall and narrow and top heavy. I like to sit low and have a low center of gravity. I cant afford that 'comfort' on a harley lol. This is why i went for japanese cruiser. Also, the 883 is 5 hp less than say my spirit 750 believe it or not. But if thats what you want, by all means go for it. They just werent my cup of tea, for others they are excellent.

Honestly, Honda has the best built bikes in the cruiser catagory. I seen it over and over in reviews how reliable honda is. If i were to sway you ... i would say go for a Honda. They also have a huge following on the net (forums etc).

I will say it again, the only person who can pick a bike out for yourself is YOU. Just like i said above, go sit on as many that interest you. No two people will find the same bike comfortable to them. I sat on a bunch i really liked the look of only to find the pegs were too close to me, handlebars too 'bull horned', headlight too far into my view...things like that. Every bike has something 'different' about it making it a 'job' to find what fits you best. Remember, its your butt that has to sit on it on long rides!

As for cruisers taking turns too wide because of going too fast into it... well, that would be rider error. If you wide out on a turn because you entered too fast, then shame on you. Entering corners with a cruiser is like any other bike, set it up before you enter, sweep the corner and accelerate out. Theres no reason you should take a corner wide like that unless you are doing it wrong. I have no problem tearing up twisties on the Spirit

Peg dragging, unlikely unless you are tearing ass on twisties leaning that bike for all its worth (remembering that most tires will only take 1.1g's before letting loose while leaning). Pipe dragging, no way. Show me a bike that the exhaust is lower than the peg on a lean and i'll eat my shoe (minus those lowrider customs that are 2" off the ground). Thats why pegs lift up, so when u do drag one, you just pee your pants a little bit lol but you wont lift the bike off the tires. I am no maniac on twisties, and i've got some major twists around here and never come close to dragging a peg besides 90 degree turns going 10mph. Even then, im probably an inch or two away from dragging.

As for having to stop all the time on a cruiser: I've ridden my Spirit on 100+ mile ride arounds just getting myself lost without taking constant breaks. I may stop once for a drink or a smoke break, but very rarely because of being uncomfortable/in pain. Now, my $450 mustang seat has alot to do with that obviously, so you will want to change out seats or find one with a touring seat already on (much cheaper that way lol).

As for plugging my bike to give you a personal opinion, sure i can give that a go. I would have to say that after all the looking i did, sitting i did, research i did that the honda line just stood out above the rest. I love my spirit. I really like the feel of the drag bars, so that i have to lean a little bit instead of sit up holding onto bullhorns. I like the factory forward controls because i can stretch my legs out a little better (i also put 4" fwd controls on it, i can put my legs straight out now if i position them just right on the highway, VERY comfortable for me). I really like the liquid cooling mainly because i live in town and there is a stop light every dam block. Works great when i am in town riding around. Liquid cooling was a BIG seller on my list of 'wants'. I wanted shaft drive for the low maintenance and quietness, but spirits are chain, so i took a loss there (although, the 07s are now shaft, yet they are air cooled now lol. one step forward, one step back). I like wide bikes, the shadow line sure takes care of that area. Chrome, i cant get enough of it. The shadow has more chrome on it than just about any other bike on the market (w00t). That saves me alot of money not having to buy chrome replacement parts. I like LOUD bikes, aftermarket pipes were also on my list of 'wants'. I took the baffles out of it and its about as loud as any harley out there. Accessories: again honda kicks ass in this dept. Yamaha also is VERY good with aftermarket parts availability ( i almost bought a vstar because of that ).

Personal preference, i will probably be sticking with Honda for a long time to come. Whenever i decide to move to another bike, it WILL be a Honda 1100 'something'.

Again, keep us posted on your progress! Me an bob will surely help out answering any questions you have (and possibly arguing which is a better bike LOL).

PS: ive dealt with salesmen at MontgomeryCycleCenter... depending who you get, they arent very helpful (i had one guy try to talk me out of buying a GZ lol). Blackmans in Emmaus ... GREAT salesmen there. They will encourage you to sit on all their bikes, answer any questions you have, give suggestions and are generally very nice to deal with. Not once did they ask 'so, whats your price range' which irritates me when they ask that (if you lowball, they dont want to waste time with you). I told them i was 'shopping' for a bike and was unsure what i wanted ... they swooped right in and helped me out.

[one]

lots to read, lots to digest. I am not dead set on harley, nor anyother brand. I went to scotts yesterday (probably somewhat close to you) and sat on a yamaha v-star custom (on the floor). it's a 650, and all blacked out, price was under 6k. I can report back on every bike i sit on but that is nonsense, i will take all the advise and keep shopping. I did stop to see the triumps. there's a machine called the "rocket" it is a 2200cu in. This things is a monster.

i'll be back. and will go back to look at the Honda's.

[Badbob]

I don't know of anyone who makes a bad bike.

There are just some I don't like for various reasons. Selecting a bike is a very personal thing that greatly depends on what you intend to do with it and your personal tastes.