Seat and fender options ending with a question - Page 6

mainlinecoffee · 03-06-2014, 11:42 AM

It has always made me wonder,are we predisposed to self destruct? From what I have seen it is in our nature to segregate and isolate. Are we really superior to animals because we were cursed with pride and ego? It looks like a handicap to me.

mainlinecoffee · 03-06-2014, 11:44 AM

Goose nailed it on the 12-1 norm to prick ratio,hard to get a accurate count because the one out of 13 won't shut the hell up and act right.

Water Warrior 2 · 03-06-2014, 04:31 PM

Socrates, Plato and Aristotle likely mulled over the same questions. Future thinkers of great stature will still be stymied.

**jonathan180iq** · 03-06-2014, 04:38 PM

I think we are taught to segregate and isolate and because of that it has become the norm...

If 20 generations before yours found it easier to segregate, isolate, and then categorize people within that isolation, then the you generation doesn't really have any other social model to work from.

We come from the womb dependent on community and our prolonged survival is only possible because of the communities that we forged and developed, even with their shortcomings. Without all of the people around us, we would wither away and die...and yes that's true even of the most independent of us on here. At some point the individual reaches his limit and cannot surpass it without the assistance of those around him.

I don't remember the study off hand, but societies can have close knit kinship and bonding up to a point of about 15,000. After that, our ability to mentally process names and faces and differences among people drops off. It's a mechanical limit in our brains that keeps up from keeping things non-segregated and isolated after a certain point. But that limit doesn't mean that we are hard-wired for the divide that we have created over the eons.

(Maybe to a certain extent, yes. Me and my family come first in my desire feed, clothe, and protect them. And a different smelling group of humans walked into my backyard I would pick up sticks and rocks and keep them at bay for what I hold dear. That is a natural response that originates deep in the more primitive parts of the brain...like the medulla I think... I don't remember. Anyway, while that primitive instinct to isolate and segregate is there, we also have all of this prefrontal cortex that allows us to problem solve and slow down and limit our baser reactions by realizing that another group of humans means double the arms to do work and provide even more for our fledgling group of earth wanderers.)

TMI, I know. But this is sort of what I do, if you people haven't caught on after all these years

mainlinecoffee · 03-06-2014, 10:29 PM

For some reason it makes me feel a lot better knowing there is a reason for our actions, the 15000 and community. But you struck a nerve on the prefrontal cortex, why have the ability but be persuaded. History teaches the dangers of the "others" the commies the Catholics the blacks the Jews etc...is it some bastardized fallout from our monkey ancestors to demonize anything that is not Intimately familiar? Or is there a predisposition with cultural influence?

Water Warrior 2 · 03-06-2014, 11:49 PM

Might be that we get aggressive towards who/whatever we don't understand or know enough about. The general situation certainly keeps life interesting. Some times good, some times bad.

**jonathan180iq** · 03-07-2014, 10:35 AM

I think you can explain it, and even see it in action simply by looking at how people in certain communities vote in elections.

Not to ruffle people's feathers, as there are usually way to many emotional attachments associated with political parties and such, but people who grew up around more cultural and social diversity (ie; people in larger communities and in bigger cities) almost always predominantly vote democrat while people who live in more rural and closed off communities almost always predominantly vote republican.

(And yes, there are millions of people across the country who live in big cities that vote republican. But on the whole, you cannot find a major social center whose total vote tally doesn't swing democrat and is therefor considered to be more liberal.)

[C'mon Jon. This seems off topic]

Why have the ability to be persuaded? Because our base reactions aren't thought out at all. They are primitive instinctual responses that keep even higher life forms from developing into something more...I mean aside from certain mechanical limitations and a few more million years of evolutionary development maybe... anyway, if we weren't able to see that maybe instantly killing off anything that wasn't exactly like us out of fear was a bad thing then we never would have left the plains of Africa. (However, I suppose you could argue that some of the migrations out of Africa and the subsequent communities and changes in skin color (which we fight over now) were somewhat driven by the very separations and isolations that we are discussing. Like, the splitting and migration from one clan to another area isn't always determined by a lack of resources in the area. Sometimes communal differences spring up and people want to be with people who agree with them instead of always bickering. Shit, how many churches in your local community used to be part of another church? Isn't that same concept true of, like, everything? Where did the Baptists originate? Where did the Protestants come from? From where did the Catholics come? Which faith did Jesus prescribe to? Which religions influenced the Hebrews? Were the Babylonians or Egyptians ever monotheists? How many cultural influences went into making those empires? Where did all those people come from?

You know as late as Middle Ages Europe the old Greek and Roman practice of having lieges was still practiced? Anyone from the knightly class and up could take on boys and young men from the lower classes as their helpers/servants/chamber guests in order to give them a higher standing as they grew up. It's not like the pop-culture concept of utopian gallantry either. It was common practice for these boys to please their masters sexually, usually via fellatio though there are records of anal sex.

I'm kind of all over the place right now and I think I've lost my original point...

In a nutshell, yes. It is some "bastardized fall out of our 'ape' ancestors to demonize anything that is not intimately familiar." It's a leftover of a more primitive way of dealing with things. We remove rational thought and rely more on gut instinct. If the people who were demonizing you would individually break down their actions and try and understand why they are demonizing another living being, then it would quickly breakdown. But doing so requires some effort, which people generally don't like to deal with, and it also requires admitting that there is some flaw in ourselves which, again, isn't something that people generally are used to doing. It's much easier to hate something if you don't internalize it's humanity and empathize with it's existence...

This is why there is war. If you can mentally separate the THEM from the US, then it's easier on our consciousness when their bodies lay bleeding before us...

Thus is the story of people... hahaha

Goose51683 · 03-07-2014, 12:46 PM

Long story short, we all suck. At least on the site here everyone seems to be pretty decent, and it they are not we ban them pretty quickly haha.

**jonathan180iq** · 03-07-2014, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goose51683

Long story short, we all suck.

Just disregard what I said. This covers it.

mainlinecoffee · 03-07-2014, 04:24 PM

Ever need to re read a statement to fully take it In? By brain is buzzing off this tangent.

03-06-2014, 11:42 AM	#51
mainlinecoffee Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: lexington ky Posts: 223	It has always made me wonder,are we predisposed to self destruct? From what I have seen it is in our nature to segregate and isolate. Are we really superior to animals because we were cursed with pride and ego? It looks like a handicap to me. Login or Register to Remove Ads
	0

03-06-2014, 04:31 PM	#53
Water Warrior 2 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Squamish B.C Canada Posts: 11,409	Socrates, Plato and Aristotle likely mulled over the same questions. Future thinkers of great stature will still be stymied. Login or Register to Remove Ads
	0

03-06-2014, 04:38 PM	#54
jonathan180iq Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Dalton, GA Posts: 3,996	I think we are taught to segregate and isolate and because of that it has become the norm... If 20 generations before yours found it easier to segregate, isolate, and then categorize people within that isolation, then the you generation doesn't really have any other social model to work from. We come from the womb dependent on community and our prolonged survival is only possible because of the communities that we forged and developed, even with their shortcomings. Without all of the people around us, we would wither away and die...and yes that's true even of the most independent of us on here. At some point the individual reaches his limit and cannot surpass it without the assistance of those around him. I don't remember the study off hand, but societies can have close knit kinship and bonding up to a point of about 15,000. After that, our ability to mentally process names and faces and differences among people drops off. It's a mechanical limit in our brains that keeps up from keeping things non-segregated and isolated after a certain point. But that limit doesn't mean that we are hard-wired for the divide that we have created over the eons. (Maybe to a certain extent, yes. Me and my family come first in my desire feed, clothe, and protect them. And a different smelling group of humans walked into my backyard I would pick up sticks and rocks and keep them at bay for what I hold dear. That is a natural response that originates deep in the more primitive parts of the brain...like the medulla I think... I don't remember. Anyway, while that primitive instinct to isolate and segregate is there, we also have all of this prefrontal cortex that allows us to problem solve and slow down and limit our baser reactions by realizing that another group of humans means double the arms to do work and provide even more for our fledgling group of earth wanderers.) TMI, I know. But this is sort of what I do, if you people haven't caught on after all these years Last edited by jonathan180iq; 03-06-2014 at 04:44 PM.
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03-06-2014, 10:29 PM	#55
mainlinecoffee Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: lexington ky Posts: 223	For some reason it makes me feel a lot better knowing there is a reason for our actions, the 15000 and community. But you struck a nerve on the prefrontal cortex, why have the ability but be persuaded. History teaches the dangers of the "others" the commies the Catholics the blacks the Jews etc...is it some bastardized fallout from our monkey ancestors to demonize anything that is not Intimately familiar? Or is there a predisposition with cultural influence? Login or Register to Remove Ads
	0

03-06-2014, 11:44 AM	#52
mainlinecoffee Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: lexington ky Posts: 223	Goose nailed it on the 12-1 norm to prick ratio,hard to get a accurate count because the one out of 13 won't shut the hell up and act right.
	0

03-06-2014, 11:49 PM	#56
Water Warrior 2 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Squamish B.C Canada Posts: 11,409	Might be that we get aggressive towards who/whatever we don't understand or know enough about. The general situation certainly keeps life interesting. Some times good, some times bad.
	0

03-07-2014, 10:35 AM	#57
jonathan180iq Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Dalton, GA Posts: 3,996	I think you can explain it, and even see it in action simply by looking at how people in certain communities vote in elections. Not to ruffle people's feathers, as there are usually way to many emotional attachments associated with political parties and such, but people who grew up around more cultural and social diversity (ie; people in larger communities and in bigger cities) almost always predominantly vote democrat while people who live in more rural and closed off communities almost always predominantly vote republican. (And yes, there are millions of people across the country who live in big cities that vote republican. But on the whole, you cannot find a major social center whose total vote tally doesn't swing democrat and is therefor considered to be more liberal.) [C'mon Jon. This seems off topic] Why have the ability to be persuaded? Because our base reactions aren't thought out at all. They are primitive instinctual responses that keep even higher life forms from developing into something more...I mean aside from certain mechanical limitations and a few more million years of evolutionary development maybe... anyway, if we weren't able to see that maybe instantly killing off anything that wasn't exactly like us out of fear was a bad thing then we never would have left the plains of Africa. (However, I suppose you could argue that some of the migrations out of Africa and the subsequent communities and changes in skin color (which we fight over now) were somewhat driven by the very separations and isolations that we are discussing. Like, the splitting and migration from one clan to another area isn't always determined by a lack of resources in the area. Sometimes communal differences spring up and people want to be with people who agree with them instead of always bickering. Shit, how many churches in your local community used to be part of another church? Isn't that same concept true of, like, everything? Where did the Baptists originate? Where did the Protestants come from? From where did the Catholics come? Which faith did Jesus prescribe to? Which religions influenced the Hebrews? Were the Babylonians or Egyptians ever monotheists? How many cultural influences went into making those empires? Where did all those people come from? You know as late as Middle Ages Europe the old Greek and Roman practice of having lieges was still practiced? Anyone from the knightly class and up could take on boys and young men from the lower classes as their helpers/servants/chamber guests in order to give them a higher standing as they grew up. It's not like the pop-culture concept of utopian gallantry either. It was common practice for these boys to please their masters sexually, usually via fellatio though there are records of anal sex. I'm kind of all over the place right now and I think I've lost my original point... In a nutshell, yes. It is some "bastardized fall out of our 'ape' ancestors to demonize anything that is not intimately familiar." It's a leftover of a more primitive way of dealing with things. We remove rational thought and rely more on gut instinct. If the people who were demonizing you would individually break down their actions and try and understand why they are demonizing another living being, then it would quickly breakdown. But doing so requires some effort, which people generally don't like to deal with, and it also requires admitting that there is some flaw in ourselves which, again, isn't something that people generally are used to doing. It's much easier to hate something if you don't internalize it's humanity and empathize with it's existence... This is why there is war. If you can mentally separate the THEM from the US, then it's easier on our consciousness when their bodies lay bleeding before us... Thus is the story of people... hahaha
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03-07-2014, 12:46 PM	#58
Goose51683 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Indiana Posts: 621	Long story short, we all suck. At least on the site here everyone seems to be pretty decent, and it they are not we ban them pretty quickly haha.
	0

03-07-2014, 04:24 PM	#60
mainlinecoffee Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: lexington ky Posts: 223	Ever need to re read a statement to fully take it In? By brain is buzzing off this tangent.
	0