Hey alancorcoran, Look here

[music man]

Originally Posted by alanmcorcoran

4) The reality is, riding the GZ does not teach you much about handling an 800 pound bike. You need an 800 pound bike for that.

If that is the case, then you wasted your money on the GZ, you should have just went straight to the 800 pound bike.

[alanmcorcoran]

Originally Posted by Sarris

My point is, 3000 miles on a GZ does not qualify you or anyone else to ride a Road Yacht.

I am in favor of graduated licensing and have pushed legislators in FL to pass it.

If it goes, you would have to get a m/c learners permit and be limited to 500cc or less for 24 months or 24K whichever comes first.

A whoop-shit on a 250 can be very forgiving. Not so on a Road Yacht.

Way too many guys get hurt or hurt other people because they assume that just because they put 3000 miles on a GeeZer that they can handle a Road Yacht.

Two drops in a week. Hmmmm........... I'm convinced.

I'm open to constructive criticism, but I don't find arbitrary beliefs to being very persuasive. Motorcycle riding is risky and dangerous. Some people will never, EVER be able to ride one well, given 24 months, 24K or 24 years. Others can pick one up off a dealer lot and ride it home. I've mentioned before I took the MSF course and got a perfect score - proving both that A) I am somewhat prudent and B) just because you take and pass a course doesn't mean you won't make mistakes. You've got to get out there and ride and get experience.

I agree that mistakes on the GZ are preferable to one on the Strat, but I want to learn to ride the Strat, and I stand by my statement that all the hours in the world on the GZ are not going to be as good as practicing on the Strat.

Again, I welcome pointers, tips, suggestions, but unless someone can cite some statistics that riders with 24K on a GZ is substantially more likely to never drop a big bike than someone with 3500 miles, it's not helpful. I did a lot of research on motorcycle accidents and, although there are a few blips here and there (first 500 miles and, between 3000-5000), it pretty much looks like motorcycle accidents kill and maim riders of all ages, all sizes and all levels of experience. The owner of Mission Motorsports, a lifelong experienced rider in his late forties, was killed last May on his bike on the way to work.

You have never set one of your big bikes down after misjudgment or mental lapse?

Supposing I decided that everyone in Florida should wear a helmet until they had been riding 5 years or 50K whichever came first?

You can't learn how to ski the expert slopes on the bunny hill, and you probably aren't going to learn much without a few falls. If I continue to have the same frequency of drops going forward (boy, that will suck) I'll give up on the big bike and try something lighter (shadow, M50.) But, even though I am basically a pussy, I am by no means intimidated by it yet. These were two very minor mistakes, that, unfortunately, had serious consequences.

[Moedad]

Originally Posted by alanmcorcoran

I'm open to constructive criticism, but I don't find arbitrary beliefs to being very persuasive. Motorcycle riding is risky and dangerous.

There's the problem right there - you've already demonstrated two serious lapses in judgment by 1) deciding to ride a motorcycle, and 2) even worse, deciding to ride it in urban Southern California with the heavy traffic and multiple freeways. You're just crazy. :whistle:

Maybe if everybody else in the country rode here for their first 5,000 miles, arbitrary beliefs would be more meaningful.

[mrlmd1]

"These were two very minor mistakes, that, unfortunately, had serious consequences."

Only to your ego and some scratches on the windshield.

Lucky or not, they were both at low speed maneuvering. So that's where you should practice, hitting the parking lot. And realize that only reading, getting educated, proper instruction, and PRACTICE, will fix it so it doesn't happen again. It's not as forgiving as the GZ 'cause of it's size and weight, and will take a lot of concentration to get good at it. I'm still going around paved roads with no houses on them (yet) where I live and practicing slow speed turns, circles, stops and starts, and I've had my bike now for a year and a half. You need the experience and the memory so it becomes automatic without thinking too hard about it.
It's relatively easy to cruise along at 50-60mph, much harder to do extremely slow turns without putting a leg down or falling over from improper braking, throttle and friction zone practice.
Ever see those videos of the motorcycle cops doing the slow speed obstacle course challenges, or the videos by CaptCrashIdaho on You Tube? Go to
http://www.motorcycle-journal.com/forum ... rashs-pad/ and watch some of those things. All of you. That takes some skill. And a lot of practice, and I would bet most of us on here couldn't perform that well.
And riding for 5,000 or 10,000 or 24,000 miles is not that important as a few hundred or more miles of slow speed turns and maneuvering. If 99% of anyone's riding is on a fast or medium speed road, it doesn't teach you anything about going slow, stopping, slow speed turns - a totally different animal.

[alanmcorcoran]

Originally Posted by mrlmd1

"These were two very minor mistakes, that, unfortunately, had serious consequences."

Only to your ego and some scratches on the windshield.

Lucky or not, they were both at low speed maneuvering. So that's where you should practice, hitting the parking lot. And realize that only reading, getting educated, proper instruction, and PRACTICE, will fix it so it doesn't happen again. It's not as forgiving as the GZ 'cause of it's size and weight, and will take a lot of concentration to get good at it. I'm still going around paved roads with no houses on them (yet) where I live and practicing slow speed turns, circles, stops and starts, and I've had my bike now for a year and a half. You need the experience and the memory so it becomes automatic without thinking too hard about it.
It's relatively easy to cruise along at 50-60mph, much harder to do extremely slow turns without putting a leg down or falling over from improper braking, throttle and friction zone practice.
Ever see those videos of the motorcycle cops doing the slow speed obstacle course challenges, or the videos by CaptCrashIdaho on You Tube? Go to
http://www.motorcycle-journal.com/forum ... rashs-pad/ and watch some of those things. All of you. That takes some skill. And a lot of practice, and I would bet most of us on here couldn't perform that well.
And riding for 5,000 or 10,000 or 24,000 miles is not that important as a few hundred or more miles of slow speed turns and maneuvering. If 99% of anyone's riding is on a fast or medium speed road, it doesn't teach you anything about going slow, stopping, slow speed turns - a totally different animal.

Well, it may be a first, but I think I agree with this post 100%. If I had to criticize myself, I'd say my biggest problem is I don't have the self-discipline to just get out the cones and hit the parking lot, because, having been there and done that, it gets old real fast. However, I think I have a teensy bit more motivation to get serious because I might not be so lucky after the next whoop-shit.

I have a perfectly good video Patrick sent me that has pretty much exactly what I need in it. I just need to go do it.

[Sarris]

Alan, it's not a "you" thing. Do a Google search for "graduated motorcycle license" and see how many states have the law. That should prove to you that it's not an "arbitrary" belief, but one that is based in solid fact, and that it save lives.

I also think people also should have to take a road test on a Big Bike before they get to upgrade their license.

And yeah, I've had my share of whoop-shits on lots-o-bikes over the years, those go with the addiction.

I just hope your mid-life testoterone rush hasn't clouded your (seemingly) good sense.

Just 'cause you can afford a Ferrari, doesn't make you Mario Andretti.

I'm done, be safe.

:2tup: :2tup:

[alanmcorcoran]

Out here, they actually discourage you from taking the test on a Big Bike (because you will probably not pass, and, will probably drop it to boot [which I have witnessed in the DMV parking lot - now there's a Walk of Shame!]) In fact, people will rent a scooter to take the test (perfectly legal!) even though they are going to be riding a 650.

To bolster your case, I would NOT want to take the "box" test on the Strat!

In any case, I am not against education or practice, but I generally don't like bureaucracies doing my thinking for me if I can avoid it. Laws tend to be written for the lowest common denominator and to address/punish the behavior of the most irresponsible. I understand that they also are written to protect the rest of the world from my own stupidity (which is a good thing) but all things considered, being a pussy, I think I am a relatively small menace to society.

Given the inherent risks, rather than promising to be safe, I will promise to not be reckless.

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by mrlmd1

If 99% of anyone's riding is on a fast or medium speed road, it doesn't teach you anything about going slow, stopping, slow speed turns - a totally different animal.

Good post.

It works the other way around too. People have hundreds of hours tooling around town at < 40 mph, go out on the highway, enter a curve too fast and ride it right off the outside. If they are lucky, it is a left hand curve......or there is no opposing traffic when they cross the center lane.

You get good at what you do the most.

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by Sarris

Just 'cause you can afford a Ferrari, doesn't make you Mario Andretti.

NO! Really? :roll:

How about Danica Patrick.....mmmmm....oops, different subject. :biggrin:

[Moedad]

Originally Posted by Sarris

Do a Google search for "graduated motorcycle license" and see how many states have the law. That should prove to you that it's not an "arbitrary" belief, but one that is based in solid fact, and that it save lives.

You know what's funny? Here in CA, IF you can get a concealed handgun permit, you have to jump through a number of hoops and pay several different types of fees (all depending on the county in which you reside). Hoops include a 16 hour training course, qualification test with each handgun you plan to carry (maximum of three), and an inspection to make sure your three weapons are CA legal. That's after months of waiting in between each step. And that's IF you live in a county that issues. But you can get a motorcycle permit with a simple written test, and hit the road in the baddest crotch rocket you can afford. In some of the states with graduated motorcycle licenses, you can get a carry permit in 20 minutes after paying a small fee and carry any pistol(s) you can legally buy. It's a funny world.