Running "Darkside"

burkbuilds · 11-26-2010, 12:52 PM

RUNNING DARKSIDE:
I've been studying this for a while now and I've watched a bunch of You Tube videos where people have done it and I'm thinking of giving it a shot in the near future. Anybody else out there running "Darkside" on their Vulcan 500's, or another bike? (Darkside is running a car tire on the rear instead of a Motorcycle tire). I just ordered a BF Goodrich T/A radial ( 155/80R15) that I think will fit. Firestone also makes a car tire that should fit. The TA might be just a little wide, I'll have to see when I get it. I put calipers on the narrowest part of the rear fender where the tire needs to clear width wise and got 6.5". The TA is 6.1" at the widest point, which is a little less than a 1/4" clearance on each side but the OD is really close at 24.7" , the OE Bridgestone tire is 25.2" OD and 5.5" wide. I also considered a Firestone Car tire (F560 145 R15) which is 5.6" wide and an overall diameter of 24.3", but it didn't seem to be the same quality of tire that the BFG T/A is. The BFG has a Tread wear rating of 400, Traction rating A and an S speed rating and cost $63 The load rating is about double of the OE Bridgestone and based on what I've read in the rags I should get at least double the 12,000 miles I'm currently getting out of the Bridgestone rear tire and maybe triple or more. Right now I'm having to replace the rear tire every six months, so double that and I'll only have to do it once a year.

alantf · 11-26-2010, 01:44 PM

Isn't the problem, really, that a car tyre has a relatively flat tread, while a bike has a curved tread, so that it's still in contact with the road when you lean the bike? Would the car tyre not mean that when you leaned the bike there would only be sidewall in contact with the road? :techy:

burkbuilds · 11-26-2010, 02:34 PM

Alan, that is what I used to think as well. But after watching video's of bikes running car tires, it just isn't an issue, they never get close to running on the sidewall at all. As a matter of fact, they have more contact area with the road than the motorcycle tire does even when guys are dragging pegs. The video's are usually filmed with the camera attached underneath the bike aimed right at the back wheel. The guys who do this, and there are a lot of them, have often put over 100,000 miles on their bikes running car tires on the rear and they all say it is an improvement in braking, handling, and longevity, over the motorcycle tire. Plus, car tires are considerably less expensive than motorcycle tires to start with.

Water Warrior 2 · 11-26-2010, 03:18 PM

Car tires on the rear. There seems to be a lot of that going around lately. May I offer a suggestion for consideration. Use an ice radial tire. They are a softer rubber compound that gripe extremely well due to all the sipes and will offer a smoother ride. Tire wear should not be a large factor on a bike will so much less weight. The softer rubber will conform to the road a little better too.
Last night I was watching a vid with a super charged Triumph running a curvy road with a car tire on the rear. The video bike was having quite a time keepng up because of the speeds involved. Glad I wasn't the chase bike because the vid would have been very boring.
Big cruisers and touring bikers have been doing the dark side for years and seem to either love it or leave it.
As a matter of fact one of the Vstrom riders just went dark side on his 1000. Installed a winter car tire on the rear and plans on a studded bike tire for the front. Figures he can keep riding a lot longer and do a lot of off road stuff with confidence.
Might be interesting to see how far you can ride before a rear car tire wears out.

Viirin · 11-26-2010, 07:43 PM

I've never heard of this concept before - but it does seem pretty interesting...

Water Warrior 2 · 11-26-2010, 09:14 PM

Thousands of riders with touring rigs are happy with tire wear and performance. They save money by not replacing an expensive tire every 5 or 6 K and being delayed while on a trip. We have a member on another forum who is totally against the idea but has no experience with a rear car tire on a bike. He has been spouting off all sorts of facts and figures according to his own style of reasoning and will refuse to acknowledge there is any value to a car tire on a bike. So be it. It is his opinion but there are too many other examples of happy riders on car tires to dismiss the idea entirely.

Easy Rider · 11-28-2010, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Water Warrior

Thousands of riders with touring rigs are happy with tire wear and performance.

That is pretty much the key for me.
As long as most of your riding is in a straight line.......and you start to drag parts with a 15 degree lean.......then why not.
I have, however, ridden a bike before with the rear worn flat in the center and it was NOT FUN.
I suspect that many of those who change don't really know enough about riding to actually know when the handling goes to hell.

Burk: 1/4 clearance doesn't sound like much to me. The tire will expand and change profile a tiny bit when inflated; everything will have to be just perfect for it not to rub.

Water Warrior 2 · 11-28-2010, 11:25 AM

Easy, you are correct about a worn flat M/C tire. But do remember that is a shape the tire was not supposed to be in to begin with. When we got back from our trip in 07 the rear on the Vstrom was down to the wear bars and worn flat from the straight flat highways. Not any real significant handling issues from the rear but the front with lots of tread was giving me grief. It had finally just reached it's life span and let me know not all was well in paradise. 25,000 kms was a lot of riding on OEM tires.
I am looking forward to feedback from BB and other forum members as to their satisfaction and overall tire performance.

burkbuilds · 11-28-2010, 11:51 AM

I am planning on mounting the new tire on a separate rim (wheel) so I can swap back without much trouble if I decide I don't like it. As to whether people who run car

tires have much experience riding, it seems that most of the people who switch over are folks who run a lot of miles every year and that is a main incentive to go to

the car tire, because they are tired of the hassle of changing a motorcycle tire every couple of months. One guy said he rode the Dragon with his car tire and had no

problems with handling or keeping up with the group he was riding with, and several riders report that it's a lot easier to do a switch back (hard lean to one side

followed by an immediate hard lean to the opposite side) with a car tire than it was with a motorcycle tire. There are a lot of detractors out there that are adamant

that you can't safely use a car tire on the rear of a motorcycle, but I can't find any of them that have actually tried it out before coming to that conclusion. Most of

the guys running a car tire say it's a little different feel, but not unlike the different feel you get anytime you switch from one bike to another, and you acclimate to it

just as quickly. I really only found one guy that tried it and had problems,and he put the tire on and immediately went to a racetrack where he wiped out in the first

turn and put himself in the hospital. That could easily be chalked up to poor driving skills, or new tires (of any type) being prone to slide out from under you in the

first hundred miles or so. Interestingly, racing Motorcycle tires have to be pre-heated before they go out on the track or they don't have much grip.

Water Warrior 2 · 11-29-2010, 01:38 AM

The tires are preheated to give maximum traction right from the start. Something we don't need on the street as we aren't racing for fun or money. As for the guy who wiped out, he is kinda stupid. I'll bet he blames the tire and not himself.
BB, I like your spare wheel idea. Seems you have all the bases covered just in case.

11-26-2010, 12:52 PM	#1
burkbuilds Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shannon, Georgia Posts: 1,268	Running "Darkside" RUNNING DARKSIDE: I've been studying this for a while now and I've watched a bunch of You Tube videos where people have done it and I'm thinking of giving it a shot in the near future. Anybody else out there running "Darkside" on their Vulcan 500's, or another bike? (Darkside is running a car tire on the rear instead of a Motorcycle tire). I just ordered a BF Goodrich T/A radial ( 155/80R15) that I think will fit. Firestone also makes a car tire that should fit. The TA might be just a little wide, I'll have to see when I get it. I put calipers on the narrowest part of the rear fender where the tire needs to clear width wise and got 6.5". The TA is 6.1" at the widest point, which is a little less than a 1/4" clearance on each side but the OD is really close at 24.7" , the OE Bridgestone tire is 25.2" OD and 5.5" wide. I also considered a Firestone Car tire (F560 145 R15) which is 5.6" wide and an overall diameter of 24.3", but it didn't seem to be the same quality of tire that the BFG T/A is. The BFG has a Tread wear rating of 400, Traction rating A and an S speed rating and cost $63 The load rating is about double of the OE Bridgestone and based on what I've read in the rags I should get at least double the 12,000 miles I'm currently getting out of the Bridgestone rear tire and maybe triple or more. Right now I'm having to replace the rear tire every six months, so double that and I'll only have to do it once a year. Login or Register to Remove Ads
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11-26-2010, 01:44 PM	#2
alantf Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tenerife (Spain) Posts: 3,715	Re: Running "Darkside" Isn't the problem, really, that a car tyre has a relatively flat tread, while a bike has a curved tread, so that it's still in contact with the road when you lean the bike? Would the car tyre not mean that when you leaned the bike there would only be sidewall in contact with the road? :techy: __________________ By birth an Englishman, by the grace of God a Yorkshireman.
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11-26-2010, 02:34 PM	#3
burkbuilds Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shannon, Georgia Posts: 1,268	Re: Running "Darkside" Alan, that is what I used to think as well. But after watching video's of bikes running car tires, it just isn't an issue, they never get close to running on the sidewall at all. As a matter of fact, they have more contact area with the road than the motorcycle tire does even when guys are dragging pegs. The video's are usually filmed with the camera attached underneath the bike aimed right at the back wheel. The guys who do this, and there are a lot of them, have often put over 100,000 miles on their bikes running car tires on the rear and they all say it is an improvement in braking, handling, and longevity, over the motorcycle tire. Plus, car tires are considerably less expensive than motorcycle tires to start with. Login or Register to Remove Ads
	0

11-26-2010, 03:18 PM	#4
Water Warrior 2 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Squamish B.C Canada Posts: 11,409	Re: Running "Darkside" Car tires on the rear. There seems to be a lot of that going around lately. May I offer a suggestion for consideration. Use an ice radial tire. They are a softer rubber compound that gripe extremely well due to all the sipes and will offer a smoother ride. Tire wear should not be a large factor on a bike will so much less weight. The softer rubber will conform to the road a little better too. Last night I was watching a vid with a super charged Triumph running a curvy road with a car tire on the rear. The video bike was having quite a time keepng up because of the speeds involved. Glad I wasn't the chase bike because the vid would have been very boring. Big cruisers and touring bikers have been doing the dark side for years and seem to either love it or leave it. As a matter of fact one of the Vstrom riders just went dark side on his 1000. Installed a winter car tire on the rear and plans on a studded bike tire for the front. Figures he can keep riding a lot longer and do a lot of off road stuff with confidence. Might be interesting to see how far you can ride before a rear car tire wears out.
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11-26-2010, 07:43 PM	#5
Viirin Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 269	Re: Running "Darkside" I've never heard of this concept before - but it does seem pretty interesting... Login or Register to Remove Ads
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11-26-2010, 09:14 PM	#6
Water Warrior 2 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Squamish B.C Canada Posts: 11,409	Re: Running "Darkside" Thousands of riders with touring rigs are happy with tire wear and performance. They save money by not replacing an expensive tire every 5 or 6 K and being delayed while on a trip. We have a member on another forum who is totally against the idea but has no experience with a rear car tire on a bike. He has been spouting off all sorts of facts and figures according to his own style of reasoning and will refuse to acknowledge there is any value to a car tire on a bike. So be it. It is his opinion but there are too many other examples of happy riders on car tires to dismiss the idea entirely.
	0

11-28-2010, 11:25 AM	#8
Water Warrior 2 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Squamish B.C Canada Posts: 11,409	Re: Running "Darkside" Easy, you are correct about a worn flat M/C tire. But do remember that is a shape the tire was not supposed to be in to begin with. When we got back from our trip in 07 the rear on the Vstrom was down to the wear bars and worn flat from the straight flat highways. Not any real significant handling issues from the rear but the front with lots of tread was giving me grief. It had finally just reached it's life span and let me know not all was well in paradise. 25,000 kms was a lot of riding on OEM tires. I am looking forward to feedback from BB and other forum members as to their satisfaction and overall tire performance.
	0

11-28-2010, 11:51 AM	#9
burkbuilds Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shannon, Georgia Posts: 1,268	Re: Running "Darkside" I am planning on mounting the new tire on a separate rim (wheel) so I can swap back without much trouble if I decide I don't like it. As to whether people who run car tires have much experience riding, it seems that most of the people who switch over are folks who run a lot of miles every year and that is a main incentive to go to the car tire, because they are tired of the hassle of changing a motorcycle tire every couple of months. One guy said he rode the Dragon with his car tire and had no problems with handling or keeping up with the group he was riding with, and several riders report that it's a lot easier to do a switch back (hard lean to one side followed by an immediate hard lean to the opposite side) with a car tire than it was with a motorcycle tire. There are a lot of detractors out there that are adamant that you can't safely use a car tire on the rear of a motorcycle, but I can't find any of them that have actually tried it out before coming to that conclusion. Most of the guys running a car tire say it's a little different feel, but not unlike the different feel you get anytime you switch from one bike to another, and you acclimate to it just as quickly. I really only found one guy that tried it and had problems,and he put the tire on and immediately went to a racetrack where he wiped out in the first turn and put himself in the hospital. That could easily be chalked up to poor driving skills, or new tires (of any type) being prone to slide out from under you in the first hundred miles or so. Interestingly, racing Motorcycle tires have to be pre-heated before they go out on the track or they don't have much grip.
	0

11-29-2010, 01:38 AM	#10
Water Warrior 2 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Squamish B.C Canada Posts: 11,409	Re: Running "Darkside" The tires are preheated to give maximum traction right from the start. Something we don't need on the street as we aren't racing for fun or money. As for the guy who wiped out, he is kinda stupid. I'll bet he blames the tire and not himself. BB, I like your spare wheel idea. Seems you have all the bases covered just in case.
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