Putting it into perspective...

[burkbuilds]

I think Mercutio's original point was simply that we often fail to realize how well off we are and don't always appreciate what we have. Hope I'm not putting words into your mouth Mercutio. As Alan points out, there are definitely movers and shakers and followers and hangers on in every society. I'd also like to point out that some societies have more opportunities available to the general population to improve their economic situation in life, and yes Alan some, but not all, of that is directly a result of corruption in their local "system" whether it's capitalist, communist, socialist, whatever. dhgeyer makes an excellent point to ponder when he states that, "we (not all of us, but most) have become way too involved with the process of consumption beyond what is needed, or even healthy, for a good life." If you don't agree, just go out in public, sit down and observe how many overweight, obese, people you see in an hour, not to mention our "over consumption" of material goods. (Does anybody really need a hummer?) All of that is okay in my opinion unless the theorists are correct and I'm only able to enjoy this level of living, not because I work hard, or have made good decision, or even simply because by "luck of the draw" I happen to live in a prosperous country, but instead is because my country is exploiting people in another part of the world and subjecting them to a state of living that leaves the majority of them unable to access clean drinking water, any form of health care, and a short and miserable life. Our country was founded on the principle of everyone having the right to Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, do we share in the blame for making it impossible for those in other countries to have those same "rights"? Liberty, by definition, is the ability to choose to try to do what you want as long as it does not harm another or prevent them from exercising their ability to choose to try to do what they want. As for the Pursuit of happiness clause, that was simply our founding father's compromise on wording because it sounds a lot more noble than John Locke's wording of "the right to own property".
Hey, this is getting way deeper than I expected in a motorcycle forum, but I do think it's worth asking ourselves if we bear some responsibility and if so what should we do in response. If we honestly take a look and conclude that it's not our fault, we have no responsibility then that's okay, but it shouldn't prevent us from asking the questions and looking for an honest answer.

[alanmcorcoran]

dh, didn't mean to take a mean swipe, but the "we're better off with less" argument always strikes a nerve with me. As it happens, although i have a few toys and a few bucks in the unstable bank, I am not an over consumer. But I don't begrudge anyone else that right.

The sad truth is, we probably need all this bullshit: beanie babies, McDonalds, Reality TV, just to keep our overpopulated planet busy. There is only so much work available on the farm and then the rest of us have to sell life insurance...

I guess what really raised my dander is I've spent time in the third world, it mostly sucks ass, and it bugs me when americans suggest we'd be better off if we were more like that.

[dhgeyer]

Sarris,

I wish it was that easy for me. I really do. Maybe it really is that simple, but I doubt it.

BB,

Thank you for reminding me. I should have also made the point that we would be happier/healthier if we were way less enamored with motorized entertainment, and more involved with human muscle powered outdoor recreation. I've had as much fun hiking and biking as riding. Well, maybe not, but close. There is a wonderful moment for me when I get to the top of a mountain, which, regrettably, I have not done in years.

Alan,

Huh? I'm speechless.

Everyone,

I must unfortunately, or fortunately, abandon this discussion and forum for a day or two. I am judging (appraising) at a Destination Imagination meet tomorrow. I'm going out there tonight, as the day starts at 7:00 AM, and will probably be a 12 hour affair. I'll probably sleep through Sunday. The energy level at these things is astronomical, and I thoroughly expect the kids to wear me out. So, I'll be back in touch sometime Sunday or Monday.

Ride safe everyone!

Dave

[mrlmd1]

Anyone want to talk about the politicians, whose sole purpose in life is to get re-elected rather than serve the good of the populace that elected them?
The banks, insurance industry, tobacco industry, and innumerable others spend so much money supporting their own interests and re-election campaigns, lobbyists, advertising (often if not most always, false), that if that money was spent here on healthcare, schools, infrastructure, and other people-oriented things, this country would not only survive in the world, but flourish. In many area, this country is third world and continues sinking under special interest groups with the money to further themselves.
If you do good (financially, as well as philanthropically), nothing wrong with spending your disposable income as you see fit. I worked my ass off all my life 'till now, did a lot for less advantaged people, and now, if I want to do for myself (and ? helping out the economy in my own way), then I will do that as long as I can.
What this country needs is to seriously think about elections and get those people in charge who will do the right thing, and get rid of politicians who just aim to stay in power, screw the people for themselves.

[alanmcorcoran]

The politicians, unfortunately, are a reflection of the populace. Capable people that could lead us are taken down by smear campaigns that emphasize their past mistakes and put their entire lives on trial. Americans seem to be horrified that a man has had an affair or once drank too much, or god forbid smoked weed. Single men are unelectable, period. We seem to be looking for some mythic perfect prince on to come forth and give us all endless goodies at someone else's expense.

As a result, most intelligent people don't want any part of it and most of the people running for office do so for the wrong reasons. I agree, the ones that are in there are beholden to those that funded their election. I don't know the real facts on Obama but one of the reasons I voted for him is he at least appeared to be raising a significant portion of his campaign money from individuals. Maybe that was all an illusion as well.

Even so, I am currently mostly content with this administration. They inherited some really bad stuff and so far have made a reasonable effort to try to fix things. I know they have blown through a borrowed trillion dollars but a good deal of that was in the works before they got in. The whole health care thing is and will continue to be a fiasco until people realize that healthcare is not a "right." (You can't have a "right" to things that someone else has to provide!) Doctors lost the battle of sovereignty to the intermediaries and it's a tossup to me as to which is worse: insurance companies or a government bureaucracy. I am happy that so far we have not invaded any additional countries for no good reason and that the war on weed has been reined in in favor of more importanrt pursuits, and even if he does not have any fantastic accomplishments to bray about, I think Obama's been reasonably articulate about what he's trying to do and some of it is working, albeit very slowly. A year ago the entire financial system was in meltdown mode and, while things are still very much in the dumper, the bleeding seems to have been stabilized, a result that I would not have predicted. Of course, this could all be the "dead cat bounce" before everything goes completely into the shitter.

As I said before, as bad as our system is (and it's plenty bad) it's better than most other places.

[blaine]

Two years ago,lost my voice,not my life to cancer.Am I bitter,angery,or sad? No.Can laugh,love,and,ride.That's all that matters.Just a thought.

[Water Warrior 2]

Originally Posted by blaine

Two years ago,lost my voice,not my life to cancer.Am I bitter,angery,or sad? No.Can laugh,love,and,ride.That's all that matters.Just a thought.

Wow, I would be devastated. I do imagine I would soon see the light and be thankful though. We can be thankful for our health care system here. In many or most 3rd world countries you would have just been left to die at your own pace.

[blaine]

That was my point.Be thankful for what you have.I am.Wasn't always.

[zenbutcher]

Originally Posted by Mercutio57

Now I'm looking at my "Poderosita" with new respect and affection!

Interesting to see you use this word... After watching The Motorcycle Diaries, I decided I'd name my little 250 "La Poderosa" as Che called his Norton. Wikipedia translates this as "The Mighty One."


*Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Motorcycle_Diaries

[alantf]

Originally Posted by zenbutcher

"La Poderosa"

Wasn't that the name of the ranch on one of those old 60s tv serials?