Full face or Flip-Up Helmet...

prof_stack · 07-07-2007, 02:09 PM

Since my accident last weekend the insurance company has discarded my Shoei full-faced helmet. The adjuster told me to look for a similar helmet of quality and (perhaps adjusted for inflation) price. They will cover up to $400 for the new helmet. I paid $290 in late 2000.

Here's my question: I wear glasses and have to take them off before donning or doffing the helmet. The Shoei flip-up helmet looks like it might be as good as a regular full-faced helmet. Is it?

It has metal clasps at the lower edge in the front where the flip-top latches to the body of the helmet. So it is much more secure than the HJC cheapie sitting next to it. I would have to pay an additional $100 for it. Snell does not put their stamp of approval on it, but DOT does.

Thanks for any and all assistance!

Badbob · 07-07-2007, 06:26 PM

I don't have a Shoei helmet but I do have a standard full face Icon helmet and a Zeus flip up. If I had your decision to make I'd go for the flip up. I only use the icon for long trip at highway speeds because the wind noise is much lower. The modular helmets are much easier to use if you wear glasses. With a tight fitting helmet you could break a $400 pair of glasses trying to get them on. If I could only have one it would be a flip-up / modular style helmet. I have never found anything about flip-up helmet safety that I didn't consider to be hearsay or opinion. Not much to base a decision on. Some of the same people that say they are not safe will admit to wearing 3/4 helmets or riding with no helmet at all. If you find some new info on the subject please post it.

Last I heard the reason the reason there are no modular helmets with Snell certifications is that none had ever been submitted for testing. If you want to sell them in the US you must have a DOT certification so we get modualr/flip-up helmets with DOT certs.

I would not bet my money that the steel latches are stronger or better than the plastic. Some plastics are very strong and is some cases stronger than steel. The steel latches are probably mounted to plastic. No chain is stronger than its weakest link.

prof_stack · 07-07-2007, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badbob

Last I heard the reason the reason there are no modular helmets with Snell certifications is that none had ever been submitted for testing. If you want to sell them in the US you must have a DOT certification so we get modular/flip-up helmets with DOT certs.

The salesguys said that Snell hasn't done enough testing yet, but the concern was that the chin brace was not strong enough for their liking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badbob

I would not bet my money that the steel latches are stronger or better than the plastic. Some plastics are very strong and is some cases stronger than steel. The steel latches are probably mounted to plastic. No chain is stronger than its weakest link.

Hard to explain without a picture. The steel latches are located on the right and left chin and form a "bond" to the lower front of the helmet body. The HJC helmets have NO latches in the chin area. The flip-top is "secured" at the pivot points on the sides. So, in a crash, there would be more likelihood of the HJC flip-top actually breaking loose.

I was told that the State Patrol cycle cops use flip-tops. The Seattle police cops (on Harleys, so cool) have 3/4 helmets and in the summer ride in short sleeves. Must have tough hide...

Badbob · 07-07-2007, 10:57 PM

The cops around here ride in short sleeves and were those little beanie helmets. Cops have other issues to deal with like hearing radios, getting their guns out, and being able to get of their bike in a hurry to name a few.

I don't buy the idea that Snell hasn't done enough testing yet unless they haven't done it because no one submitted any. These have been around for a long time.

After reading this I'm not convinced Snell certification is even an issue for me. I own one that is and one that isn't. I wear the one that isn't Snell certified everyday. [/url]

prof_stack · 07-07-2007, 11:39 PM

Copying a few bits from the article: (btw, thanks for the link!)
"First, about half of all serious motorcycle accidents happen when a car pulls in front of a bike in traffic. These accidents typically happen at very low speeds, with a typical impact velocity, after all the braking and skidding, below 25 mph .... Actual crash speeds are slow, but the damage isn't. These are serious, often fatal crashes. Most of these crashes happen very close to home...."

Wow, that about fits my accident last weekend to a T - (bone...). It seems that the speed of the crash isn't proportional to brain damage because the helmet usually hits the pavement with the usual downward force due to gravity. I have noticed some short term memory lapses lately with less ability to concentrate. Let's hope that gets better!

The flip-top helmets are about $100 more than their same-brand counterparts here in town. I might spend the extra and get one after the insurance company covers the replacement expense.

Gadzooks Mike · 07-08-2007, 08:51 AM

And Professor, it generally involves an idiot with a cell phone. :cuss:

I have more close calls in the parking lot at work in a day than I did the entire 2000 mile trip I just took. I believe the reason is lack of cell phones. They generally don't work out there. I never got a signal on mine unless I was near an interestate. Myth Busters proved that using a cell phone was just as bad as driving drunk. I'm still amazed that we allow people to do so.

prof_stack · 07-08-2007, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gadzooks Mike

Myth Busters proved that using a cell phone was just as bad as driving drunk. I'm still amazed that we allow people to do so.

Man, I love Mythbusters. What a fun and informative show!

The state of WA will soon make cell phone use a "secondary" offense. So if a driver is cited for something and was using the cell phone they will be cited some more. Big deal.

However, the thinking here is that it will soon be a primary offense. Like lack of seatbelt use was once a secondary offense.

prof_stack · 07-14-2007, 09:19 PM

While I wait for the Buell to get fixed, I've been shopping for helmets and decided to go full-faced. Geico sent me the check to cover the costs for a similar replacement helmet (Shoei).

I pretty much settled on a Suomy with graphics. But when I went to the local Suzuki dealership today for their yearly BIG sale, they had all helmets marked at 20% off. Wow!

I ended up getting a Arai Vector (Camo-blue) which fit my head better than the Suomy and Shoei (RF1000). Such a deal! So I ended up having to pay only a little of my own money for a better helmet. Nice.

davtnn · 06-23-2008, 10:28 PM

I miss my old SURE helmet .... fit was wonderful and you could see the world with ease ... it just wore out ... and i found they dont make them any more ...smae too as it was a really rugged helmet

bigwonton · 06-23-2008, 11:09 PM

I wear glasses too and after trying on a bunch of helmets, I settled on the HJC CL-MAX which is a flip-up design (that and they make it in 3XL for my huge noggin'). I wouldn't consider using a non-flip-up for daily use.

07-07-2007, 02:09 PM	#1
prof_stack Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 42	Full face or Flip-Up Helmet... Since my accident last weekend the insurance company has discarded my Shoei full-faced helmet. The adjuster told me to look for a similar helmet of quality and (perhaps adjusted for inflation) price. They will cover up to $400 for the new helmet. I paid $290 in late 2000. Here's my question: I wear glasses and have to take them off before donning or doffing the helmet. The Shoei flip-up helmet looks like it might be as good as a regular full-faced helmet. Is it? It has metal clasps at the lower edge in the front where the flip-top latches to the body of the helmet. So it is much more secure than the HJC cheapie sitting next to it. I would have to pay an additional $100 for it. Snell does not put their stamp of approval on it, but DOT does. Thanks for any and all assistance! Login or Register to Remove Ads
	0

07-07-2007, 06:26 PM	#2
Badbob Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Tallahassee FL Posts: 945	I don't have a Shoei helmet but I do have a standard full face Icon helmet and a Zeus flip up. If I had your decision to make I'd go for the flip up. I only use the icon for long trip at highway speeds because the wind noise is much lower. The modular helmets are much easier to use if you wear glasses. With a tight fitting helmet you could break a $400 pair of glasses trying to get them on. If I could only have one it would be a flip-up / modular style helmet. I have never found anything about flip-up helmet safety that I didn't consider to be hearsay or opinion. Not much to base a decision on. Some of the same people that say they are not safe will admit to wearing 3/4 helmets or riding with no helmet at all. If you find some new info on the subject please post it. Last I heard the reason the reason there are no modular helmets with Snell certifications is that none had ever been submitted for testing. If you want to sell them in the US you must have a DOT certification so we get modualr/flip-up helmets with DOT certs. I would not bet my money that the steel latches are stronger or better than the plastic. Some plastics are very strong and is some cases stronger than steel. The steel latches are probably mounted to plastic. No chain is stronger than its weakest link. __________________ My GZ250 Blog Facebook Pinterest Google+ Tumblr YouTube Lumber Jocks
	0

07-07-2007, 10:57 PM	#4
Badbob Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Tallahassee FL Posts: 945	The cops around here ride in short sleeves and were those little beanie helmets. Cops have other issues to deal with like hearing radios, getting their guns out, and being able to get of their bike in a hurry to name a few. I don't buy the idea that Snell hasn't done enough testing yet unless they haven't done it because no one submitted any. These have been around for a long time. After reading this I'm not convinced Snell certification is even an issue for me. I own one that is and one that isn't. I wear the one that isn't Snell certified everyday. [/url] __________________ My GZ250 Blog Facebook Pinterest Google+ Tumblr YouTube Lumber Jocks
	0

07-07-2007, 11:39 PM	#5
prof_stack Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 42	Copying a few bits from the article: (btw, thanks for the link!) "First, about half of all serious motorcycle accidents happen when a car pulls in front of a bike in traffic. These accidents typically happen at very low speeds, with a typical impact velocity, after all the braking and skidding, below 25 mph .... Actual crash speeds are slow, but the damage isn't. These are serious, often fatal crashes. Most of these crashes happen very close to home...." Wow, that about fits my accident last weekend to a T - (bone...). It seems that the speed of the crash isn't proportional to brain damage because the helmet usually hits the pavement with the usual downward force due to gravity. I have noticed some short term memory lapses lately with less ability to concentrate. Let's hope that gets better! The flip-top helmets are about $100 more than their same-brand counterparts here in town. I might spend the extra and get one after the insurance company covers the replacement expense. Login or Register to Remove Ads
	0

06-23-2008, 10:28 PM	#9
davtnn Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: lafayette Tenn Posts: 110	I miss my old SURE helmet .... fit was wonderful and you could see the world with ease ... it just wore out ... and i found they dont make them any more ...smae too as it was a really rugged helmet __________________ 2008 black GZ250
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07-08-2007, 08:51 AM	#6
Gadzooks Mike Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Opelika, AL Posts: 162	And Professor, it generally involves an idiot with a cell phone. :cuss: I have more close calls in the parking lot at work in a day than I did the entire 2000 mile trip I just took. I believe the reason is lack of cell phones. They generally don't work out there. I never got a signal on mine unless I was near an interestate. Myth Busters proved that using a cell phone was just as bad as driving drunk. I'm still amazed that we allow people to do so.
	0

07-14-2007, 09:19 PM	#8
prof_stack Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 42	While I wait for the Buell to get fixed, I've been shopping for helmets and decided to go full-faced. Geico sent me the check to cover the costs for a similar replacement helmet (Shoei). I pretty much settled on a Suomy with graphics. But when I went to the local Suzuki dealership today for their yearly BIG sale, they had all helmets marked at 20% off. Wow! I ended up getting a Arai Vector (Camo-blue) which fit my head better than the Suomy and Shoei (RF1000). Such a deal! So I ended up having to pay only a little of my own money for a better helmet. Nice.
	0

06-23-2008, 11:09 PM	#10
bigwonton Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 90	I wear glasses too and after trying on a bunch of helmets, I settled on the HJC CL-MAX which is a flip-up design (that and they make it in 3XL for my huge noggin'). I wouldn't consider using a non-flip-up for daily use.
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