Oil Cooler?
 

I had been pondering if it would be possible/practical to add an oil cooler to the GZ250 to keep her running cooler. when I had the clutch cover off the side of my engine I noticed a plug and thought that it would be a good place to tap a hole for an oil cooler. But not having adequate information on where to route the return for the oil cooler not to mention considering whether or not I would be starving some part of the engine of oil by adding the cooler. I saw this

http://www.postimage.org/Pq2J6Bl0.jpg

and they had tapped the supply for the oil cooler right where I would have. I'll look at the service manual when I have time. I thought I'd throw this idea out to see if anyone else had any thoughts.

EDIT: sorry for the annoyingly huge pic. hope this one is better.

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

Oh boy, you better not let Patrick see this! (Or are you just messing wih him?)

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

Why should he worry about patrick seeing this, yes he is using the now infamous "350cc" bike as an example but not for the same purpose, and who the hell messed up this thread and made it ten miles wide.

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

It's the photo.

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

Just had a real good look at this larger pic. Did anyone notice the front portion of the rear fender stops way to soon ?

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

How much is one of these? I think I'm going to buy one just so I can be the first to turn my GZ into a 350.

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

You still won't be the first to turn your GZ into a 350, you will just have another bike in your garage, a cheaply made chinese bike. And on top of that it is basically the same price as a GZ.

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

:puke: :jo: :puke: :jo: :puke: :jo: :puke: :jo: :puke: :jo: :puke: :jo:

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

Dude did you forget Al's got more money then god?
Thats how you put it right Al?

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

Not sure anymore. Think God has checked his 401K lately? Hope he didn't have it all with Stanford and Madoff. He'll be needing a bailout from future US generations. Nothing sadder than a laid off angel.

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

My first thought is: Your browser is posting messages that are WAY too wide; hard to read.
My second thought is: Not necessary or useful to post that picture YET AGAIN in such a short time.

Back to the subject at hand.......bad, BAD idea. Without access to the design specs. of the oil system, you are
indeed likely to starve something (or everything) of oil and have a meltdown. :skull:

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

Back to the original post, to put an oil cooler on, you'd need either external oil lines to tap into or at least, ports/fittings on the motor that would facilitate routing the oil flow out to the cooler and back in to the engine. The GZ's 250 doesn't have either, afaik.

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

And my post on the 250 thread wasn't that I thought I could put the 350 into a GZ250, but that the frame was pretty damn similar, a typical Chinese reverse engineered knock-off.

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

Yea but this site has a long history and MANY LOCKED THREADS because of the "turn my GZ into a 350" conversation, and the problem is like I said before NO ONE has even bought a single part to try it, much less ACTUALLY try it or DO IT, that is why the tone turned sour in a hurry when you brought it up.

And that IS a GZ250 frame and a modified GZ250 engine with different name tags on it.

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

Yes but the point IS: The GZ has a port that is used, I believe, to test the oil pressure. Some have proposed putting a fitting there to connect an oil cooler. Two problems with that: Where do you bring in the return line AND how do you ensure that creating such a bypass loop won't cause the rest of the engine to become oil starved. It's that second part that is the "killer".....literally! :skull:

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

That's exactly why I started this thread. Somebody out there might know something about the GZ engine that we don't making this a real possibility. I originally had the idea because I've modified air cooled VW engines and the similarities between the DR350 engine and the GZ250. The DR350 uses the frame as an oil cooler. I had given up on the idea long ago as too much of a pain in the ass until I saw the picture of the Chinese knock off that sparked my curiosity once again. That and I just had to spend $330 to fix my cylinder head warping due to overheating.

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

I think that the Oil Cooler is definitely a viable option for the GZ, you need to find some better specs on that bike or like you said a DR350 or better yet a service manual for one of those bikes would be perfect, it would give you an entire teardown view of the engine. This is one project that I would say to go for, but....... like Easy said, you are taking a HUGE risk that you are going to be starving the engine of oil and there will be no way to know that you are until it is WAY too late, but with enough research into those other engines you should be able to pull it off.

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

Saw this on the web, thought it was interesting. The poster (Patrick_777)??rode for a while, parked the bike for 2 minutes and took these temps with an infrared thermometer.
http://www.postimage.org/Pq2JYLAr.jpg

Looks like the hottest spot on the motor is the rear top cylinder head (besides the exhaust pipes). I agree an oil cooler would be a good addition.

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

looking at some pictures from one of Babbob's threads and thumbing thru the service manual. It looks pretty simple and reversible if you decide you don't want it there later. Page 4-11 of the service manual shows a flow chart of the oil system. We would want to located the cooler after the oil pump and before it starts branching out to the crank, clutch and cam shaft. So basically inline just before or after the oil filter. After the oil filter would be ideal but doesn't look practical.

The oil pump is behind that gear just above the curved channel (below and to the right of the clutch). It appears that the output of the oil pump fills this channel.
http://www.robertkeeney.com/gallery/...250-Clutch.jpg

This channel is where the oil pressure test plug is. This plug could be removed and used for the oil out to the cooler. The channel in the clutch cover going to the oil filter would then have to be plugged. A hole could be drilled in the oil filter cover for the cooler return line.

http://www.robertkeeney.com/gallery/...250-Clutch.jpg

I think this would work IF my understanding of the oil system is correct. I am slightly confused that in the flow chart it shows a pressure relief bypass of the oil filter. I could not find anything on this anywhere? Is this bypass built into the filter?

Does anyone know what the threads are on the oil pressure test port plug? Also anyone have info / resources for hoses and fittings etc?

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

I know that there are quite a few used motorcycle oil coolers, some with lines, on eBay. There is also a oil cooler kit for $50 w/shipping on eBay that includes hoses and some fittings.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...3AIT&viewitem=
http://www.postimage.org/Pq2KJDe9.jpg
I have seen oil cooler lines returned to the top of the head as well, at the end of the camshaft. Don't know if this would work or not. Of course this is not the GZ motor in these pics.

http://www.postimage.org/aV2vJoM9.jpg

http://www.postimage.org/gx1gtaw0.jpg

http://www.postimage.org/Pq2KLTpi.jpg

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

HA!

The Internet is circular.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1024

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

Yes I saw that on a site that was all in some foreign language (could not even tell what language) but happened to notice in the text a reference to Patrick_777, after I had posted it, so I edited in your reference. Figured it was you. Great pic with the temps and all.

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

OK, I'll play along.....for a while. How do you figure that an oil cooler will do much to reduce the temperature of the cylinder head.......since that is where the heat originates AND there is precious little oil flow there ??

Another consideration: Oil capacity. In order not to let the level get too low, you would have to ADD enough extra oil to fill the cooler. If much of that drained back to the sump when off, then the "proper" level might be ABOVE the sight glass.

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

There is a bit of oil flow from the camshaft galley as the oil lubricates the valve rockers and camshaft and then moves to the sump. The oil that lubricates the cylinder walls also has a cooling effect on the cylinders and piston. I just have a "gut" feeling that if the oil was cooler it may have a small cooling effect on the whole motor. I realize that the GZ motor was not specifically designed to be oil cooled, so the effects might be less than hoped for. I never thought the GZ motor ran all that hot till I saw Patrick_777's pic. I have read by the way that the oil should not be cooled to less than 190 degrees or so, not sure why, flow maybe?

As far as the oil level goes, without an anti back flow valve in the oil cooler supply line you are correct, the oil level in the sump would be way high at start up, which could lead to blown seals, and at the least making it impossible to check oil level. Another complication.

One of the nice things about the GZ being so simple is that it is well designed and very usable in stock form. If it ain't broke don't fix it. This is probably not such a great mod.

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

If the oil is not warmed sufficiently, the following 2 desirable things wont happen:
1 Unburned gasoline that finds it way into the oil will evaporate and leave the crank case.
2 Any moisture that may have condensed in the crankcase or moisture from combustion blowby will evaporate and leave the crank case.

Where did you find the pictures of that suzuki with the oil lines going everywhere? From what I can see it doesn't look like that would be to good for the engine.

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

Use the KISS principle. Just use a quality oil that resists thermal breakdown and enjoy the ride.

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

Those pics were on a GSXR site

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

Suzuki has been air/oil cooling bikes for years. I am sure a lot of research and design went into the product before offering it to the public. The oiling system on their sport bikes is designed with oil cooling in mind. I read a couple articles about oil cooling years ago when Suzuki first brought it out and it is not just a case of adding an oil cooler. A lot of internal parts are modified to accommodate oil flow, oil quantity and oil presure as certain points in the engine.

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

What Water Warrior said. I agree. It is beyond the ability of us owners to out engineer the factory engineers IMHO. On the other hand there are aftermarket solutions that address weaknesses in the original design of many products, not that adding an oil cooler is doable on the GZ250. Maybe cabin fever has set in this time of year and our thinking is somewhat faulty. We can't just go for a ride so we start having all sorts of crazy ideas, such as adding oil coolers to our GZ's!

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

For sure Mr. Softie. Idle wheels are the Devils workshop.

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

I''ve seen other bikes, such as the Suzuki DR200, that have oil coolers on what appears to be the same engine, depending on the market its sold in .The American version of the DR200 does not have an oil cooler, but the Japanese /European ones do . It's sold as a "farm" bike, but it 's the same bike.I think its a logical idea,and with the engine [ GZ250] used in many other bikes, I would not be surprised to see an external oil cooled version somewhere in Suzuki's inventory. CMS

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

Guys... the GZ is air-cooled for a reason... that reason being that the engine is small enough to not need any of these farkles!

If you're wanting to make sure your oil is at the right temperature, then keep your engine in tip top condition! (Spark plug for correct firing, clean oil filter to remove blockages, and high quality oil!!)

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

I agree with the last part of your post, but this part is not a valid reason.

There are many air-cooled large-bore bikes out there. The 1854cc Yamaha Stratoliner is a good example.

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

True, but it was one of my concerns. The Yamaha gets a lot hotter than the Suzi, but I've burnt something on both of them at this point. You have to use your head - if it's 95 degrees out, don't be sitting out in parking lot traffic for hours at a time. Split the lanes or go park it until you can move. They don't like to sit still.

When I was researching the Yamaha, I read a number of reports of air cooled Harleys (sorry, Sarris) getting so hot their owners couldn't sit on them. But, apparently, if I remember correctly, Harley invented a slick solution - shut down one cylinder when idling (or something like that.) Not sure if it works, but it sounded like a cool idea. Don't think I have that on the Strat.

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

My 1996 Suzuki VS-1400 Intruder chopper (my old avatar) was specified as air/oil cooled and did indeed have and oil cooler from the mfgr. The VS-800 Intruder was water cooled. The GZ is third world transpo designed to have low maintenance, cheap to run, and excellent longevity. If the GeeZee needed an oil cooler, Mr Suzuki probably would have put one on.

http://www.postimage.org/gx1oqfM0.jpg

Parade duty Harley's have massive oil coolers. All the 09 Big Twins have an auto rear cylinder shutdown for overheating. (also has manual control by twisting the throttle grip Backwards....hmmmm)

If I get stuck for over 10 mins in traffic I'll find an alternate route. I'm smart enough not to sit there and let the bike (or me for that matter) overheat. Duh.

If the bike is overheating it's too damn hot to ride anyway. It's Guinness time!!

:)

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

Sarris,

I was looking at '07's and the one that seemed to get the worst press was something called an Ultra Classic Electra Glide.

This was a typical thread: http://www.powersportsnetwork.com/enthu ... &veh=38808

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

It's mainly bikes that have fairing lowers (the part in front of your shin) that is mounted to the crash bar. They block too much air flow. My Streetglide has only the batwing fairing. No lowers, no tour pak (pizza box).

It gets above 95 degress w/ 100% humidity here some summer days and I've never experienced any bike over heating. The fat bastard in the seat overheats looooong before the bike.

BTW, the dude in the article is right that it takes about $2k to make your new $21k HD run right. Air Cleaner kit, FI re-map, pipes, and labor. Most HD guys have no overheating issues unless they are REAL granny drivers or stuck in stop & go traffic for an hour or more w/ high temps.

:lol:

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

...and that is an absolutely f*cking ridiculous concept. A $21k bike should run RIGHT from the first mile, without any tinkering. Hell, a $2k bike should be the same way! :bang:

Re: Oil Cooler?
 

Sarris,

My understanding is, back in '07 anyway, the HD folks blamed the problems on too strict emissions standards. There was a bit of eyebrow raising at this, even in the hard core HD community, when the HD dealers just happened to have all the right add-on/custom stuff (for the 2K mentioned) to correct the issue.

You gotta love HD, they sell a premium priced bike, at full list or over, that has a basic, serious design flaw, and, rather than revolt, it appears many of their loyal patrons willingly paid an extra 2K to put their bikes right. Some of them even chastised the few that had the temerity to complain. It seems like once a company is adopted by the blue collar "real America" (you know, the one Ms. Palin referred too) they will put up with just about anything.

I'm not an American-made hater (I have a Suburban and I like it okay, ten years in an no serious problems, except the @#$-in! radio died) nor am I an HD basher. I sincerely hope that the newer HD's, even if they are still pricey, aren't going the way of 1980's Detroit. If you are going to charge a fat premium, and you have a loyal following of die-hard fans willing to pay it, screwing them over with shoddy product is un-Christian, un-American and, really, unforgivable.