Start-Up / Loss of Power Problems - HELP!!!

[varatiki]

Thank you all for the feedback. I am a little slowed down by the Thanksgiving holiday but will get back to the problem next week most likely. Last night I charged the bike battery on a trickle charger but have yet to install it again as I have been gone all day. I will be sure to post an update on things when I am back around next week!

[varatiki]

Well, some good news and some of the same. After installing the charged battery it fired up successfully. However, it takes a minute or two to get it to catch and continue running. The bike cranks if that's the correct term, but my instinct is that the fuel is not combusting right away when trying to start it. The electrical is definitely there, but slow to start/catch. Each time that I have described in these posts, I have set the petcock to "PRI" when starting. When driving it around it seems to miss here and there, or looking at it another way, seems to surge inconsistently when trying to accelerate. It's not 100% of the time through acceleration, but is definitely noticeable as increasing speed. Once it warms up, it definitely does better. I have also checked the current crossing the battery terminals while holding a medium-range rpm on the bike, and it read as 13.12V. As I recall, this is in the correct range...?

Tonight it was about 40 degrees outside when I went out to start it (not the first time since putting the battery in it). The engine caught after a few attempts and would cycle a few times, then would die and have to be started again. Standard procedure for this bike, but not sure if it should be. But on the way to work, my wife called and the bike had died and she couldn't get it to start again (the bike had probably only been on for about 5 minutes at the time). Don't have much of an explanation for it yet, or what it or she was doing, but I am assuming it was due to the surging feeling/loss of power that I described above. I rushed to arrive there and showed up about 5-10 minutes after the bike died. It started up right away for me, and no problems on the way back aside from the fact that I showed up in jeans and tennis shoes and the ride home was far from a warm experience... I have also noticed that when turning off the bike the chopped exhaust tends to burp.

Now I am trying to assess what my next step should be on the bike. I consider myself an average mechanic and am hoping to do as much of the work as possible. Right now I am considering cleaning the carburetor. Yet, as I have introduced Seafoam into the tank - but have yet to finish running through that tank of gas, should I be even close to expecting results from that? Otherwise, how difficult is it to clean the carburetor? I am going to hold off on the air filter for now as on-site instincts are leading me toward other suggestions (and cheaper). Also, with a chopped exhaust, would you recommend playing with the fuel mixture or returning to a stock exhaust? What are the odds of the exhaust system being the root of the problem? I have looked into this fix a bit and have found that the OEM exhaust is upwards of $300. Hoping to sell the bike as a learner's ride for $1300-1500 when all is in order again, so that's quite a hit to get it running smooth. Is there any agreement out there as to what my next move should be? Thanks again!

[varatiki]

Originally Posted by JWR

I may have missed this, but spark plug???

What color was the end... brown I would think.

Jerry

I have changed the spark plug and the problems still exist.

[alantf]

Knowing the bike (I've had mine for over 2½ years) & with no real evidence, my gut instinct is carburettor problems. For some reason the gz seems to have a more temperamental carb than any other bike I've ridden. I can't get carb cleaner over here, so I use fuel additive every 3 or 4 tankfuls, & it really does make a big difference. If you're happy stripping the carb, I'd say go for it.

I've always ridden with the stock silencer, so I don't know exactly how much difference a chopped down one would make, but the concensus of opinion is that it's not a good idea without carb mods.

[mrlmd1]

You do not need to put the petcock in the PRIME position to start the bike unless it has been sitting for quite a while, like many weeks. And you only have to have it in that position for a short time to refill the carb bowl, if it was empty, then put it back to RUN. You may be flooding the carb and that's why it is difficult to start. And don't use full choke to start it, maybe 3/4, and slowly turn it down (off) over a minute or two as the bike warms up. You should not need the choke on for more than a 1/2 mile- 1mile of riding, which should be only 5 min or less when starting out for the first ride of the day. The next time you start it, you probably don't need any choke, unless it has sat for many hours in really cold temps. The bike should start within a few revolutions of the engine and not need long cranking, so you haven't solved your problem yet, but be sure you are trying to start it the right way.

[Easy Rider]

Originally Posted by mrlmd1

The bike should start within a few revolutions of the engine and not need long cranking, so you haven't solved your problem yet, but be sure you are trying to start it the right way.

:plus1: on all that.

I find it somewhat interesting that you never mention the choke in all of your posts. You NEED the choke for a cold start.

You also need to inspect the air filter and box and boots on both sides of the carb. The filter is an essential part of the carb mixture setting; anything that bypassed the filter....like a hole in the box, filter not seated or leaks at the boots will adversely affect the performance.

You can use the air filter as a diagnostic tool of sorts. Remove the filter and run it. If it runs worse, then the mixture is about right or too lean. If it runs better, then something else is causing it to be too rich.....like a stuck choke/enricher.....or the filter itself might be plugged.

In the end though, I suspect your carb is still gummed up a bit. If you haven't already, you need to drain the tank and bowl, put in about 1/2 tank of fresh gas and some "real" carb cleaner.....like Berryman's B12 Chemtool or Original Gumout. Put in the amount recommended for a full tank into just a half (giving twice the recommended concentration). Start and run until warm. Let it sit overnight. Repeat a time or two as needed. If/when you notice some improvement, fill the tank the rest of the way.

[alanmcorcoran]

V,

I pretty much agree with all of the above posts, but with one refinement: Once my carb was hosed, it tended to stay hosed, even though I had put carb cleaner in the tank. I rode mine for a while with it in the hosed condition, including three round trips to a dealer that is about 35 miles away. I got used to all of the same sort of crap you are adjusting to (it was ridable but it was also very irritating.)

Bottom line, I recommend you either service the carb yourself or take it to a competent and honest mechanic.

I also recommend you go back to the stock pipes - it will make it easier (maybe even legal!) to sell and will eliminate another constant source of possible carb problems.

There are a lot of people on here that sort of thrive on screwing around with the bike, but they enjoy that aspect of it and are willing to put in the time and aggravation that goes along with making modifications. You seem to be more interested in providing your wife with trouble free transportation and I think she'd be happier with the stock exhaust.

One last note: When mybike was stalling a lot, it occasionally quit right as I entered an interesction, forcing me to push it out of traffic duck walk style. One time this happened I burned a real nice hole in my fancy touring pants as I had stretched my leg back while in mid push to a place it normally wouldn't be and touched the inner shin to the the tailpipe. You don't want this to happen to your wife, especialyy if she's not wearing fancy touring pants. Get the carb fixed and you will enjoy riding it a lot more.

Good luck and let us know how it comes out.

[varatiki]

Well, here's the update and NEW problem. I started it up on Friday after it not running for about a week and a half, and it DID fire up immediately (only thing done since last post is adding Seafoam and then riding it around a bit). But, within a few minutes it died and wouldnt' start again. Plenty of juice in the battery this time around though. Without another option, I took the bike on a nice romantic evening walk to the gas station. Along the way I determined that my wife had apparently left the petcock on PRI the last time she rode it and this had completely drained the fuel tank except for the bowl. I filled up the tank there, adding Seafoam to the mix once again... but then it wouldn't stay running. The first time it ran the longest, the second attempt at starting it, it ran for a shorter period of time until it wouldn't run at all. I have more or less determined that it is not getting fuel for some reason but have absolutely no idea why. I haven't put the stock pipe on it yet (and was heading to my parent's garage to do this when the new problem started - part and tools are there)... and am actually trying to get the new OEM exhaust on it by Wednesday.

HOWEVER, I can't get the bike to stay running now. This morning it started up immediately without the choke and not touching it since Friday, so I ran inside to gear up. But, same deal - I heard it die before I was coming back out the door. It seems to run off the fuel in the bowl, then die and can't get fuel anymore. I checked the vacuum hose on the back of the petcock and that's still connected at both ends. It was set to RUN, and I didn't hear anything else unusual when it was actually running. After dying, I set it to PRI for a little while then tried starting it again. No luck, but I think I might have flooded it. Either way I'm not too confident that it will run after getting past the fuel in the bowl. An odd symptom that is either new or that I've never noticed before is that when having it on PRI for too long it will start spilling fuel onto the ground through the overflow line. I really don't feel like pushing it the 17 miles to my parents' house, so any ideas would be appreciated. Otherwise, anybody want to buy a bike?

[alanmcorcoran]

Not running the bike for a while generally does not improve its running when you get around to it. I had to nurse mine back from a long lay off. Spent the better part of an hour just trying to get it to run at all. You probably will need the choke, and you probably will need to just let it run without any load for a while. You may also need to goose up the idle setting (I didn't mess with mine this go round - trying to keep the various factors simple.)

You should not need to set it to prime for weeklong or even a month long break. you might be fouling/flooding the ignition.

See if you can get it started with the choke full on, and then don't touch the throttle once it's running. And make sure you have thoroughly educated yourself about the petcock positions (it is NOT intuitive!) Let it run for a good half hour before you attempt to twist the throttle. Mine took nearly 60 miles of WOT riding to start to get better and didn't really get back in the groove until I had gone through a full tank of gas (about 140 miles.) A six mile ride won't help much.

If none of that works,take it to a dealer and have them flush he tank and clean the carb. Good luck.

If you get a new bike, get FI.

[Sarris]

Replace the vacuum hose from the petcock to the carb. A cracked vacuum hose will act like. No vacuum shuts the petcock, hence no "off position"

Good luck.

:cool: