Little Help Please :) - Page 2

Cooteboy · 05-31-2011, 01:32 AM

Just a thought about the stabil. Did you use the "ethanol" version? I work at Napa - after several years of wrenching. This year and last I have a seen multiple vehicles, lawn mowers, chain saws, boats, and the like having terrible carb/fuel issues because of the increase in ethanol. If you read the stabil label it states to be good for 3-6 months of storage. You actually would have been better off using the seafoam as a stabilizer as it is good for 2 years of storage. Although neither one is really that great for ethanol.

We've been carrying a product called Startron at my work. I personally have witnessed it turn a 3 gallon tank of nasty stinky orange un-burnable fuel into clean smelling, clear and runnable fuel. Absolutely incredible! It is the ONLY thing I am using now to store my bikes.

Just a thought - beware the ethanol. Also, what grade fuel have you been using? The higher the octane - the cooler the burn.

geezer · 05-31-2011, 06:24 PM

dont make her think she needs to run high octane fuel man

87 for these bikes

Cooteboy · 05-31-2011, 07:03 PM

Sorry geezer,

Didn't mean to imply that she "had to" purchase premium, just stating a thought. Anyone suffering from heat related issues should try running premium fuel to see if it improves. If you think about it, it's only 20-30 cents more per gallon making it a mere $1.25 extra per tank to try out a couple times.

geezer · 05-31-2011, 10:57 PM

hmmm i guess. never thought of using fuel like that. sounds li a band-aid fix to me. sure it might burn cooler but it also burns slower, im sure a gz would puke its guts out on premium fuel.

Water Warrior 2 · 06-01-2011, 12:41 AM

The higher the octane the more controlled burn. These bikes are designed to burn almost anything combustable in 3rd world countries. 87 is what is recommended. Why stray, I'm sure the Suzuki engineers have some fine collective knowledge.

Cooteboy · 06-01-2011, 01:04 AM

Doesn't anyone read their manual like I do? :retard: OK, so I have been a bit more intimate with mine being as I had the bike dismantled in my living room.

Not to step on toes ...

Section 1-3 of the Service manual bottom of the page under fuel and oil recommendations
"FUEL"
"Use unleaded gasoline that is graded 91 octane or higher."

Premium in my area is 92 octane, so that's all I'm using. This air cooled engine does better, and would probably last longer on premium fuel because it's easier on the components.

My wife's supercharged buick is the same way. In fact, there was a factory recall on her car because too many customers were ignoring the "premium" recommendation and using the cheap fuel - causing the exhaust to run extremely hot and in doing so causing engine fires from weeping valve cover gaskets. If you run cheap fuel in that car, it runs like a pig.

Water Warrior 2 · 06-01-2011, 02:57 AM

Please keep in mind there are 2 ways to determine octane. 2 separate types or methods. The method referrred to in the manual is probably the other method not commonly used in North America and it's 91 or 92 value is equal to the method used to determine 87 octane in N.A. The GZ is designed with a lower compression to allow for 3rd world fuels.
Your wife's super charged Buick does require high octane without a doubt and would probably suffer dire results with it's more modern sophisticated engine design. I'll bet it would go like a bat with 94 octane and no corn products added to the mixture.
The GZ is what it is and regular fuel is the only requirement to keep it happy. If your personal comfort is enhanced by using premium gas just do it and be happy.

mrlmd1 · 06-01-2011, 08:23 AM

Premium fuel is easier on the components of the engine? Based on what evidence? Where does something like that come from?
It's almost impossible to get people to give up their bias that premium fuel is "better" than regular fuel. Premium fuel is only different from regular in having additives to slow down the combustion process to prevent pre-ignition or pre-detonation in a high compression engine, which the GZ is not. It actually has less power or energy in it per cc. or oz. of fuel compared to regular, gives worse performance, gets worse gas mileage, and is more expensive. The GZ engine was designed to use regular fuel, period- you want to use premium, for whatever reason, go for it, it's your bike, your pocketbook. Do a little research on numerous threads on this and other forums and on the web about what exactly high octane fuel is and you'll be quite surprised.

mrlmd1 · 06-01-2011, 08:31 AM

Here's a little partial explanation from an auto and bike mechanic on another forum : First a comment by another member, than his explanation.

Higher octane fuel resists detonation. Another way of looking at it, is it's harder to light and actually has less energy. With a non-sophisticated engine (no variable timing, knock sensors, etc.) there's no advantage to using higher octane than required to avert detonation.

Octane does not affect potential energy level of gasoline. Octane affects how quickly the flame front propagates through the combustion chamber. Burning fuel raises the temperature of the gasses in the combustion chamber, increasing the temperature of the gasses in the combustion chamber increases the pressure those gasses exert on the walls of the combustion chamber (which includes the top of the piston), and it is the pressure on the top of the piston that pushes the piston down, which pushes on the rod, which pushes on the crank, etc. Since the flame front propagates slower, the maximum cylinder pressure may not be generated until well after the piston passes top dead center on the power stroke, which means the push on the top of the piston does not begin until after top dead center. Best power is delivered when the push begins just after the piston passes top dead center. If the push doesn't begin until 20* after top dead center, no power is generated for that 20* arc of crankshaft revolution. That is why higher octane fuels require advanced ignition timing to make power--the flame front needs more time to generate heat and pressure. In some engines, higher octane fuels simply don't burn as efficiently as lower octane fuels. It is the lower efficiency that results in lower engine output, not lower energy content of the fuel.

sabo99 · 06-01-2011, 10:11 AM

Wow, lots of good info here. I have always used 93 octane in my GZ. To update this topic, i havent had time to do anything to it. However it seems to be running ok now. I rode it to work yesterday, and today. Started up just fine. Maybe a few more days of it sitting with the seafoam in the carb cleaned it up some. I am going to filler up again on friday. Will spray some carb cleaner in the tank this time to run through it. Just seems weird that i would need to clean out the carb and such with only 2000 miles on it. I always run higher octane gas, stored correctly in the winter, etc. I do find the above topic on the Stabil interesting. I had put some in my moms tiller last winter, and it was a pain in the rear getting that thing started. I had to spray the inside of the carb with carb cleaner, and let it sit to get it to finally fire up. I will use some Seafoam this winter and see if my results change any. Thanks again for all the help. With the price of gas, i rely on the bike to get to work. Saves money when i dont have to drive the truck.

05-31-2011, 01:32 AM	#11
Cooteboy Junior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Washington State Posts: 22	Re: Little Help Please :) Just a thought about the stabil. Did you use the "ethanol" version? I work at Napa - after several years of wrenching. This year and last I have a seen multiple vehicles, lawn mowers, chain saws, boats, and the like having terrible carb/fuel issues because of the increase in ethanol. If you read the stabil label it states to be good for 3-6 months of storage. You actually would have been better off using the seafoam as a stabilizer as it is good for 2 years of storage. Although neither one is really that great for ethanol. We've been carrying a product called Startron at my work. I personally have witnessed it turn a 3 gallon tank of nasty stinky orange un-burnable fuel into clean smelling, clear and runnable fuel. Absolutely incredible! It is the ONLY thing I am using now to store my bikes. Just a thought - beware the ethanol. Also, what grade fuel have you been using? The higher the octane - the cooler the burn. Login or Register to Remove Ads
	0

05-31-2011, 06:24 PM	#12
geezer Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: dahlonega GA Posts: 563	Re: Little Help Please :) dont make her think she needs to run high octane fuel man 87 for these bikes __________________ 99 gz 250 and a currently dismantled fzr 1000
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05-31-2011, 07:03 PM	#13
Cooteboy Junior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Washington State Posts: 22	Re: Little Help Please :) Sorry geezer, Didn't mean to imply that she "had to" purchase premium, just stating a thought. Anyone suffering from heat related issues should try running premium fuel to see if it improves. If you think about it, it's only 20-30 cents more per gallon making it a mere $1.25 extra per tank to try out a couple times. Login or Register to Remove Ads
	0

05-31-2011, 10:57 PM	#14
geezer Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: dahlonega GA Posts: 563	Re: Little Help Please :) hmmm i guess. never thought of using fuel like that. sounds li a band-aid fix to me. sure it might burn cooler but it also burns slower, im sure a gz would puke its guts out on premium fuel. __________________ 99 gz 250 and a currently dismantled fzr 1000
	0

06-01-2011, 12:41 AM	#15
Water Warrior 2 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Squamish B.C Canada Posts: 11,409	Re: Little Help Please :) The higher the octane the more controlled burn. These bikes are designed to burn almost anything combustable in 3rd world countries. 87 is what is recommended. Why stray, I'm sure the Suzuki engineers have some fine collective knowledge. Login or Register to Remove Ads
	0

06-01-2011, 01:04 AM	#16
Cooteboy Junior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Washington State Posts: 22	Re: Little Help Please :) Doesn't anyone read their manual like I do? :retard: OK, so I have been a bit more intimate with mine being as I had the bike dismantled in my living room. Not to step on toes ... Section 1-3 of the Service manual bottom of the page under fuel and oil recommendations "FUEL" "Use unleaded gasoline that is graded 91 octane or higher." Premium in my area is 92 octane, so that's all I'm using. This air cooled engine does better, and would probably last longer on premium fuel because it's easier on the components. My wife's supercharged buick is the same way. In fact, there was a factory recall on her car because too many customers were ignoring the "premium" recommendation and using the cheap fuel - causing the exhaust to run extremely hot and in doing so causing engine fires from weeping valve cover gaskets. If you run cheap fuel in that car, it runs like a pig.
	0

06-01-2011, 02:57 AM	#17
Water Warrior 2 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Squamish B.C Canada Posts: 11,409	Re: Little Help Please :) Please keep in mind there are 2 ways to determine octane. 2 separate types or methods. The method referrred to in the manual is probably the other method not commonly used in North America and it's 91 or 92 value is equal to the method used to determine 87 octane in N.A. The GZ is designed with a lower compression to allow for 3rd world fuels. Your wife's super charged Buick does require high octane without a doubt and would probably suffer dire results with it's more modern sophisticated engine design. I'll bet it would go like a bat with 94 octane and no corn products added to the mixture. The GZ is what it is and regular fuel is the only requirement to keep it happy. If your personal comfort is enhanced by using premium gas just do it and be happy.
	0

06-01-2011, 08:23 AM	#18
mrlmd1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Crawfordville, Florida Posts: 2,853	Re: Little Help Please :) Premium fuel is easier on the components of the engine? Based on what evidence? Where does something like that come from? It's almost impossible to get people to give up their bias that premium fuel is "better" than regular fuel. Premium fuel is only different from regular in having additives to slow down the combustion process to prevent pre-ignition or pre-detonation in a high compression engine, which the GZ is not. It actually has less power or energy in it per cc. or oz. of fuel compared to regular, gives worse performance, gets worse gas mileage, and is more expensive. The GZ engine was designed to use regular fuel, period- you want to use premium, for whatever reason, go for it, it's your bike, your pocketbook. Do a little research on numerous threads on this and other forums and on the web about what exactly high octane fuel is and you'll be quite surprised.
	0

06-01-2011, 08:31 AM	#19
mrlmd1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Crawfordville, Florida Posts: 2,853	Re: Little Help Please :) Here's a little partial explanation from an auto and bike mechanic on another forum : First a comment by another member, than his explanation. Higher octane fuel resists detonation. Another way of looking at it, is it's harder to light and actually has less energy. With a non-sophisticated engine (no variable timing, knock sensors, etc.) there's no advantage to using higher octane than required to avert detonation. Octane does not affect potential energy level of gasoline. Octane affects how quickly the flame front propagates through the combustion chamber. Burning fuel raises the temperature of the gasses in the combustion chamber, increasing the temperature of the gasses in the combustion chamber increases the pressure those gasses exert on the walls of the combustion chamber (which includes the top of the piston), and it is the pressure on the top of the piston that pushes the piston down, which pushes on the rod, which pushes on the crank, etc. Since the flame front propagates slower, the maximum cylinder pressure may not be generated until well after the piston passes top dead center on the power stroke, which means the push on the top of the piston does not begin until after top dead center. Best power is delivered when the push begins just after the piston passes top dead center. If the push doesn't begin until 20* after top dead center, no power is generated for that 20* arc of crankshaft revolution. That is why higher octane fuels require advanced ignition timing to make power--the flame front needs more time to generate heat and pressure. In some engines, higher octane fuels simply don't burn as efficiently as lower octane fuels. It is the lower efficiency that results in lower engine output, not lower energy content of the fuel.
	0

06-01-2011, 10:11 AM	#20
sabo99 Junior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Bloomington, IL Posts: 15	Re: Little Help Please :) Wow, lots of good info here. I have always used 93 octane in my GZ. To update this topic, i havent had time to do anything to it. However it seems to be running ok now. I rode it to work yesterday, and today. Started up just fine. Maybe a few more days of it sitting with the seafoam in the carb cleaned it up some. I am going to filler up again on friday. Will spray some carb cleaner in the tank this time to run through it. Just seems weird that i would need to clean out the carb and such with only 2000 miles on it. I always run higher octane gas, stored correctly in the winter, etc. I do find the above topic on the Stabil interesting. I had put some in my moms tiller last winter, and it was a pain in the rear getting that thing started. I had to spray the inside of the carb with carb cleaner, and let it sit to get it to finally fire up. I will use some Seafoam this winter and see if my results change any. Thanks again for all the help. With the price of gas, i rely on the bike to get to work. Saves money when i dont have to drive the truck.
	0